Ken S

thats sucks.. I really liked the IRS on that concept truck.. lower bed floor, and better ride. would have been awesome if all the light duty trucks and SUV's got it instead of the 8.5" 10 bolt..

But besides interior exterior sheetmetal looking old, is there anything really that bad about the current truck platform? Of course I assume that more powerful/efficient powertrains will appear to directly play again the Ford and Titan's engine stats..

redzed

Look at 2005 Tahoe/Suburban or Silverado, then look at a Nissan Armada/Titan. Then, do yourself a favor by driving the Nissan - there's absolutely no comparison!

Sure, every aspect of the GM product's powertrain is feels more of less inferior but you'd expect that from an elderly product. Hopefully, GM's 6-speed slushbox and the updated V8s will narrow the gap. What I'm taking about is packaging, design, handling and overall quality - all areas where Nissan has made the quantum leap.

Pre-Lutz management was right to push for a "clean-sheet-of-paper" design like the Cheyenne.

96_Camaro_B4C

The GM autos may lack a gear, but I don't think they are lacking in the feel/shift quality department. And the 5.3 may be down on power compared to the DOHC 5.6, but not in throttle response and overall refinement.

As for packaging, quality, and the other areas, when I see the Titan, I see a horribly plastic (and large) dash (for which GM is endlessly and often pointlessly criticized) and a small bed. They do have spacious interiors, though. It is to be expected that a design that has been out since 1999 will be eclipsed in some areas by a new for '04 design, but the Titan has not rendered the GMT800s obsolete, IMO.

redzed

You obviously haven't driven a Titan or Armada. Nissan's 5-speed shifts faster, smoother and is easy to downshift manually. In comparison, the 4L60E makes a choice between slow but smooth shifts and quick, jerky ones. Oh, and manual downshifting is delayed action affair with GM's ancient slushbox. Overall, GM's ancient 4-speeds are better than some of the older Ford units but just terrible compared to Nissan. Personally, I like Nissan's 5-speed better than DCX's 5-speed Mercedes designed unit (which also is better than GM's 4L60/65E).

Wrong again on ever score. I wonder if you've ever gotten near a Nissan dealership.

1. The dash in the GMT-800 is about the worst in the industry. It's a conglomeration of every bad, cheap feature GM has produced in the last 20 years. I mean seriously, the ignition switch is still "hidden" on the side of the steering column.

Nissan went for weird plastic textures, lots of faux aluminum trim and steering wheel that looks like it came from the Z-car parts bin. The effect is unfamiliar, but at least there aren't the rattles and creaks you'd expect in GM products.

2. Bed size isn't much of an issue anymore. Of course, there are always the 5th-wheel-nitwits and contractors that want 8ft. beds on extended cabs.

Compare the best in class 2nd row legroom of the Armada with the limited 2nd row space in parade-float-sized Suburban/Avalanche.

I guess you didn't notice the sales decline for the Suburban and Escalade, which was followed by the announcement of production cuts for the big SUVS.

Z28x

The big SUVs segment as a whole is down. Nissan Titan is a Sales Flop, they missed their target sales goal by 40% and the Titan is even getting out sold by the Avalanche. I see more SSRs on the street than Armadas, and I heard the Infiniti Q56 isn't selling either.

muckz

I assume you base that on studies and surveys, right?

AronZ28

Say what you want about the Titan/Armada being better than GM trucks, I still say that the Nissians are uglier than sin. GM's styling is much better, especially the Escalade and GMC line. Also the automotive press has ripped both GM and Nissian for having cheesy interiors(although GM's is admittly worse.)

Also, consider that the 6.0 V8 is rated at 345 HP and 380 lb-ft of torque, GM still has Nissian's number on power. Not to mention GM's pickups can be ordered with the 8.1 big block V8 or the Duramax diesel.

I don't see the Titan posing a big threat because you can only get it in a half ton, 1 engine option, extended or crew cab, 2WD or 4WD. Also consider that pickup buyers are the most loyal customers in the business.

Another thing that irks me is when the automotive press or Ford says the F-150 is the best selling pickup. They want you to believe that Ford owns the pickup market. If you look at market share, its clear that GM as a whole still sells more trucks than Ford.

AronZ28

On the column is actually a much better place for the ignition to be than opposed to on the dash. I have never had a problem sticking a key in the column, and cars have been this way FOREVER. I actually find the key harder to use on my mom's Toyota, which has the ignition on the dash.

My biggest gripe with the ignition on the dash is that it leaves a nasty rub mark where your keys dangle and hit the dash. Now that isn't an issue with a column mounted switch.

Z28x

Side of the column is were it should be. I hate newer cars that put it on the dash, it just doesn't feel right there. The column is more ergonomically correct.

In GMs defense, the GMT-800 interiors are from 1998, and in 1998 they were the best. The problem is it isn't the late 90's anymore, GM should have redone all the GMT-800 interiors for the 2004 model year.

redzed

I hate to say this, but who the heck leaves a keychain dangling from the ignition? The weight is bad for an ignition switch, the jangling is annoying and most modern car keys are too fat to fit on a key chain anyway. (I guess that's the downside of the immobizer chips they put in the key fobs.) Long term, the trend is towards keyless remotes that are integral with the key fob or those silly keyless-go systems.

Nissan took the simple route by angling the ignition switch so the keyless remote never comes in contact with the dash. Clever!

AronZ28

Well I used to work for a valet company for three years. The only key that would not fit on a keychain were Mercedes keys with intergrated fobs that had the little plastic loop broken off. And most people keep more than one key on their key fob because they like to have the remote for their car, a house key, and keys for other cars they own. I haven't driven a new Titan/Armada, but every car I've ever driven that had a dash mounted ignition, the keys would rub on the dash. If you say Nissan somehow found a way around this design flaw, I'd have to see it to believe it.

I will agree that in 10 or 15 years, keys may become obsolete. It all depends on how well these new keyless systems hold up on luxury cars.

SFireGT98

If it were to look like that, I'm kinda glad that GM didnt produce it. With a vehicle that huge, I couldnt imagine getting hit by one. Suicide doors are an interesting idea though, as was mentioned earlier.

Strangely enough, I'm seeing quite a few of the '05 vans around my area. I've seen the Chevy, Pontiac, and Buick versions. Hell I've seen about 6 of them the past two days! I'm not a big fan of their looks, but apparently some people are.

In regards to GM's trucks, I dont think we have anything to worry about. One thing the Big 3 know how to do is build a decent truck and I'm sure GM wont disappoint.

muckz

I noticed at my local chev dealer that they're selling Ventures and Uplanders, and strangely enough, Ventures have a much higher MSRP. Uplanders have a very nice interior, if anyone ever sat in one, and I don't understand who would choose Venture over Uplander if he or she were in the market for a chevy van.

Ken S

alright, maybe I should have rephrased my question..

Lets say, if GM on their next batch of trucks and SUV's, put in a quality interior, a freshened exterior, and a new smooth shifting 6 speed auto tranny (what ever happeend to that supposid new tranny for rwd cars and light truck apps?), and upped the engine hp/tq a bit.

You still think the ride and the towing capcity wouldn't be competative?

Discgolf

You are completely ignorant for even making a statement like that. Come back when you know what you are talking about and can back up bold statements like that with proof.