Took the words right out of my mouth.

Some thoughts:

A 400hp/360tq 5.0L without direct injection is going to require variable valve timing and premium fuel (atleast recommended). This will be the first time the Mustang GT has had the "premium fuel recommended" sticker. A departure from its winning recipe.

I still find it hard to believe that this engine is going in the Mustang GT AND the price is going to stay significantly less than the Camaro SS. I believe that a Mustang GT with this motor and a 6-speed transmission will put this car in a higher price range than it has been before. Again, a departure from its winning recipe.

I also think that the insurance on this 400hp Mustang will likely be higher (likely significantly, look at what it costs to insure the 03-04' Cobras) than insurance on the current 315hp Mustang. Making this car more expensive to own and creating another departure from Mustangs winning recipe.

It is very interesting to see Ford so worried that their time proven winning recipe for selling cars will fail that they are making changes before the competition even hits the streets. They are copying the competition, which they have really never done before and it very well may be just that edge the competition needs to succeed.

As for what I think the 2011 Mustang GT should be. I would like to see something like this:

Keep the SOHC 4.6L (because its cheap and light) and add direction injection, bumping output to about 340-350hp and 360tq. Mate this engine to a new 6-speed transmission in both automatic and manual form. Compromise the gearing to achieve significantly better fuel economy than the current car, leaving performance gearing such as 3.73s optional for the enthusiast. Keep the car light (current weigh is 3533lbs for the 2010GT) and keep it running on regular 87 octane. Keep the price about where it is (maybe a very slight bump) and continue selling more Mustangs than Camaros. Of course, they need to upgrade the V6 as well. Atleast give it the 3.5L V6 in the 2010 Fusion making in the 260-265hp range and again, keep the price dirt cheap.

 

That would make too much sense! But this is the new Ford and not GM, so it could possibly happen!

 

So what if the 5.0L was priced relatively the same, the weight go up slightly (i mean slighty ... not more than 100lbs), have a 6 speed with an aggressive set of gears and like the new GT500 2 lower overdrive gears for fuel economy (6speed), more power, and have possibly the adaptive tuning for 87-91 octane (premium recommended)?

That does not mess with the winning strategy, it goes with it.
Remember back the 4.6 3v 2005 GT was relatively priced with the outgoing car, and carried much more in the car, just as the 2010 does.

Don't assume that just because its a new engine with more power it'll cost a boatload more, or weigh a boatload more.

 

If its 400 ft/lbs in the stratospshere, alot of Mustang owners are gonna be suprised and alot of Camaro owners are going to be snickering - in the impromptu world of street racing, I've yet to see the majority of people reving their cars to 3 or 4,000 rpm. Most of the stuff I've seen is pretty much mash the gas and go from whatever RPM the engine just happens to be in. All that sorta fun favors a big displacement engine (as IIRC you've said yourself in the past).

Anyways I hope I'm pleasantly disappointed, hardcore bowtie diehard BS aside, I bet the majority of guys on this site will look at the majoirty of 1/4 mile times of the 5.0 car and swear up and down Ford is over-rating the engine.

 

I am so tired of this argument.

We'll wait to see the factory power and torque ratings once they come out. We'll wait to see what these cars can do on a track once they come out.

The displacement argument can be summed up as follows:

All other things being equal, displacement is irrelevant when comparing factory-stock vehicles. Horsepower is horsepower, and torque is torque. However, if you allow engine modifications, a vehicle with more displacement has inherently more power potential than one with less.

:sigh:

 

But the engine that can rev higher will make more power too. I guarandamntee that a 4v Ford Modular engine will out rev ANY LSx engine. The arguement with that said is now a mute point.


Bossco: My little 2v with bolt-ons does 8.4s in the 1/8 so it comes off the line well. I am sure a larger displacement, larger bore engine will come off the line nicely.

 

DI is rumored to still be a few years out for the 5.0. I don't think they'd bother adding that to the current Modulars. I'd just keep the current engine in the GT and milk some money out of people for the 400hp model. Call the new 5.0 car the Bullitt or Mach 1 or Boss or whatever other name you want to bring back. Actually, Boss 302 would be a neat name to resurrect.

I agree about tuning the GT for economy. It gives you the low cost V8 that some people want, while also crowing about better mileage. People won't notice that it's slower, because all the magazines will be getting 5.0s to test.

 

What are you backing up that guarandamntee with (that's better than a guarantee, right)? I want to know how much I collect when I present the rev limit of an LS7 versus the 4v 5.4?

 

Imo, the 4.6L Sohc really isn't needed now that the Ecoboost 3.5L v6 is here. With the Ecoboost v6, you have more power and better fuel economy than the 4.6. The heavy full-sized AWD MKS will be getting 25mpg highway with this engine. In a rwd mustang that's over 800lbs lighter, it should be good for atleast 27-28mpg highway.

The lineup that i'd like to see....
* base v6 mustang - 265-275hp 3.5L/3.7.
* GT - 2 engines choice: 400hp 5.0L v8 or 355-380hp Ecoobost 3.5. 5.0 for those that want power and a v8, and Ecoboost 3.5 for those that want economy and performance.
* possible 430-450hp special Edition (either Mach 1, Boss, or Bullitt).
* GT500 - 540hp 5.4

I think that's very doable.

 

I'm pretty sure the GT had a 6500RPM redline. The LS3 has a 6600RPM redline and the LS7 is up there at 7000.
What production 4 valve Ford Mod motor has a higher redline?

 

How are you getting the 430-450hp?

Why not milk the customers and charge an extra $5K for the 5.0 like BMW did for years with the 23i/28i and 25i/30i?

I don't think think you have a very good scenario for maximizing Mustang profits.

 

Depends, the 4.6 is probably cheaper to build and lets them stick a V8 badge on the car. ZZtop makes a good point that more isn't always better, because of cost of ownership.

I also agree that if you want 400HP, you're gonna pay for it. $30K plus, count on it. If you look at Ford's other products, they aren't making any concessions on price.

 

Are you saying that a 9000rpm Honda S2000 makes more power than my Camaro?

Power is calculated based on RPM and torque. That higher-revving engine needs to make enough torque at those higher RPMs, or your statement is entirely false.

Redline RPM, like displacement, is just a spec. Power ratings are what they are, and an engine's redline changes nothing once you already have the power ratings (I'm not just speaking of peak power -- I'm speaking of the complete dyno graph).

Moot. The word is "moot." It rhymes with boot, and not with cute.

Sorry; pet peeve. Having said that, I don't know what you meant by this sentence.

That's what I was going to say.

 

IF the price stays about the same and gas mileage increases then we are still good with the 5.0L. However, I think a direct injected 4.6L would get better gas mileage than a non-DI 5.0L which would be a great selling point when high has prices return.

However, even if the 5.0L is priced about the same and gets better gas mileage, I am very curious to see what the 400hp rating will do to insurance though.

The 03-04 Cobra's were more expensive to insure than a Corvette, even though the Corvette was more expensive to repair. I believe this is due to the fact that many young people own and have owned Mustangs. Young people are considered higher risk and often get in more accidents. I think this has resulted in the Mustang being labeled a high risk car by most insurance agencies.

If the 5.0L pushes the price of the Mustang GT (not a special edition) up to $30k or more, with higher insurance, then to me it is a complete departure from Fords winning recipe and a game changer.

I also never said the car would weigh a boatload more, but it will weigh more. 2010 GT is 3533# and I look for the 5.0L/6-speed car to weigh somewhere around 3600-3650# which would make it a great match for the Camaro SS assuming the GT gets 400hp and 360+tq

 

The 430hp could be a higher CR DI version of the 5.0 or a version of the 6.2L motor if they do decide to use it in the mustang. I don't think we'll see a special edition right away, but later down the line.

Why charge an extra 5k for the 5.0L when you can get a similar product in the competitor at no extra cost?? Why would the consumer pay 5k extra making the live axle GT more expensive than both the Challenger R/T and the camaro SS that comes standard with 390-426hp and IRS?

You scenario may maximize profits, but it's also a very good way to maximize competitor sales. Mustang is no BMW. BMW may get away with overcharging and ripping off their customers, but i don't think that'd work for Ford.