Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
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Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 4,320
From: Memphis
Re: Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
Originally Posted by 87camracer
kyle, lexus really doesnt make much that most here would call anything other than bland. sure the quality is good but remember, these are the people that bought $35k+ cars with quality the same as a $15k cavalier. so its safe to assume they dont care about quality.
that said, i really only like the IS and SC300 cars. the IS actually looks good as well as has a decent aftermarket. the sc doesnt look that great but it IS 2 door and rwd. other than that the cars are overpriced and bland IMO.
that said, i really only like the IS and SC300 cars. the IS actually looks good as well as has a decent aftermarket. the sc doesnt look that great but it IS 2 door and rwd. other than that the cars are overpriced and bland IMO.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,881
Re: Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
Originally Posted by Threxx
GM has a long way to go in terms of their cars for the most part.
I see people here talking about the Pontiac G6 being superior to the Honda Accord and the Buick Lacrosse being a worth competitor of the Lexus ES330.
WTF are you people smoking?
The same people that have the nerve to call the ES330 bland are now saying that the Lacrosse is great?
Wow.
And to make matters worse, the Lacrosse is a brand new design. The ES330 is getting a ground-up redesign and a boost to 280hp w/ an all new drivetrain in less than a year.
I see people here talking about the Pontiac G6 being superior to the Honda Accord and the Buick Lacrosse being a worth competitor of the Lexus ES330.
WTF are you people smoking?
The same people that have the nerve to call the ES330 bland are now saying that the Lacrosse is great?
Wow.
And to make matters worse, the Lacrosse is a brand new design. The ES330 is getting a ground-up redesign and a boost to 280hp w/ an all new drivetrain in less than a year.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 2,043
From: Shelbyville, IN
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
Originally Posted by ced8
that's because it was moved from there 
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 709
From: Waterford, MI, USA
Re: Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
The new Mitsu Eclipse has 263hp. Another body blow for GM. The Koreans 100,000 warranty, bold new styling from Chrysler, redesigned Civic in 06, Ford cant build the new Mustang fast enough. I see GM droppng below 25% of the market in the not too distant future. But not this month, with GMs employee pricing good for everyone PLUS the rebates. It looks like GM would rather give the product away than pay laid off workers 95% of weekly pay to stay home.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
GM isn't going anywhere.
First, GM has over 20 BILLION in cash! They also have a ton of short term investments, then finally GM has multiple holdings that can be sold for cash in a pinch. It's like Bill Gates suddenly loosing a couple million a year with no new paycheck. It's gonna take a loooooong time before he's gonna run out of money.
Second, It takes forever to kill a car company. It took most of the late 50s to get Studebaker to the point where it was hanging on by their fingernails. Even then, it took another 6 years for them to die. Even puny little AMC took at least 10 years to bite the dust.
Third, GM actually seems to know what the problem is, and has already taken corrective action. GM interiors have gone sharply up the past few years, as have quality. GM also seems to finally be aware that putting everything into trucks and ignoring cars or treating them as afterthoughts was a mistake. GM has some pretty impressive stuff in the pipeline. They know they need to streamline their product development & approval process. They finally caught up to us from 2 years ago and realized you can't rebate yourself to profits & market share.
The issue isn't "GM going down the crapper" as was so eloquently put (at least for the "lounge"). The issue is whether this is enough to get GM to discard it's culture that became outmoded in the 1980s, and become a mean competitor like the Chrysler division of DaimlerChrysler, or Hyundai.
First, GM has over 20 BILLION in cash! They also have a ton of short term investments, then finally GM has multiple holdings that can be sold for cash in a pinch. It's like Bill Gates suddenly loosing a couple million a year with no new paycheck. It's gonna take a loooooong time before he's gonna run out of money.
Second, It takes forever to kill a car company. It took most of the late 50s to get Studebaker to the point where it was hanging on by their fingernails. Even then, it took another 6 years for them to die. Even puny little AMC took at least 10 years to bite the dust.
Third, GM actually seems to know what the problem is, and has already taken corrective action. GM interiors have gone sharply up the past few years, as have quality. GM also seems to finally be aware that putting everything into trucks and ignoring cars or treating them as afterthoughts was a mistake. GM has some pretty impressive stuff in the pipeline. They know they need to streamline their product development & approval process. They finally caught up to us from 2 years ago and realized you can't rebate yourself to profits & market share.
The issue isn't "GM going down the crapper" as was so eloquently put (at least for the "lounge"). The issue is whether this is enough to get GM to discard it's culture that became outmoded in the 1980s, and become a mean competitor like the Chrysler division of DaimlerChrysler, or Hyundai.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 97
From: somewhere in time
Re: Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
$20 billion in cash against 300+ billion in debts
is that even right? it's the number i've seen thrown around in print
oh well...
EMPLOYEE DISCOUNTS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!
is that even right? it's the number i've seen thrown around in print
oh well...
EMPLOYEE DISCOUNTS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Re: Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
Originally Posted by O-taka
$20 billion in cash against 300+ billion in debts
is that even right? it's the number i've seen thrown around in print
oh well...
EMPLOYEE DISCOUNTS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!
is that even right? it's the number i've seen thrown around in print
oh well...
EMPLOYEE DISCOUNTS FOR EVERYONE!!!!!
GM's asset value is about $480 billion.
GM's loss this quarter was $1 billion...as in "one".
GM has access to a $5.6 billion line of credit.
GM's debt as far as I can tell is closer to $30 billion than $300 billion.
If GM had 300 billion in debt, it would be dead because creditors would be selling off it's assets.
Myth: BUSTED
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 42
From: Louisville, KY
Re: Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
I find it humorous that everybody talks about JD powers surveys and how GM quality has gone up, wow the vehicle held together for 90 (round of applause) days quite an achievement for something that is the second largest purchase in most people's lives. People don't look at the long term in surveys and I'm willing to bet if they did GM as a whole would fare far worse if the results covered the first 3-5 years of ownership.
There is not a brand of vehicles that I can think of that go "ghetto" and by that mean visually falling apart, making bad noises, and having lower resale values. Hell, if you look at a 3 year old cavalier against a corolla or civic it looks like a piece of crap. Same with a Malibu, roommates mom bought on of the previous generation cars brand new, I though nice car. A few years later, piece of junk. Build a car that is durable in the longterm and people might start to buy your vehicles again. And for god's sake make an actual cool car that anybody with a regular paycheck can afford.
There is not a brand of vehicles that I can think of that go "ghetto" and by that mean visually falling apart, making bad noises, and having lower resale values. Hell, if you look at a 3 year old cavalier against a corolla or civic it looks like a piece of crap. Same with a Malibu, roommates mom bought on of the previous generation cars brand new, I though nice car. A few years later, piece of junk. Build a car that is durable in the longterm and people might start to buy your vehicles again. And for god's sake make an actual cool car that anybody with a regular paycheck can afford.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Re: Well it's official...GM is going down the crapper
Originally Posted by possumslayer
I find it humorous that everybody talks about JD powers surveys and how GM quality has gone up, wow the vehicle held together for 90 (round of applause) days quite an achievement for something that is the second largest purchase in most people's lives.
And don't feed me any crap about them falling apart after 90 days.
The last GM car I had to have warranty work done on was my 99 Z28... since then we've had a 2001 Monte Carlo SS, a 2002 Monte Carlo SS, a 2004 Grand Prix GTP, and a 2004 GTO... NONE have been in for any warranty repair.
ARe they 100% aboslutely perfect vehicles? No. I still haven't found one that is... but they function just about perfectly.