Z284EVER looks like something you would write!

 

Then there's no problem at all with the weight

Here's an interesting tid-bit. I was able to go to a presentation by Tadge Juechter, the current Chief Engineer for Corvette. During the Q&A portion, someone asked if they ever considered a light weight stripped down version for more 'hardcore' customers.

The answer made total sense, he said: "There is a small but extremely loud group that asks this all of the time (maybe he's a member here ). We have considered this numerous times but what we find out is, even if we make something like what these people ask for, it doesn't sell well enough to justify the cost. As a result we leave this more or less up to the owner if they want to start removing interior or looking to the aftermarket for weight savings."

So there aren't even enough people to buy a true lightweight version of a performance oriented sportscar...why in heck would there be enough people interested in forsaking creature comforts and more options for weight savings in a run of the mill family car?

Like someone else posted, 95% couldn't care less, as long as they have the options they want and the car doesn't ride like a boat. I agree, except I think it's more like 98 or 99%.

 

Not me. The odds of getting into an accident such as that are extremely low ... for example, I recall reading that an airbag will deploy approximately once every 130 years of driving. And that would be including drunk drivers, mobile phone talkers, etc., neither of which I do, so that makes it even rarer for a decent driver.

To me, I'd rather enjoy the benefits of a lighter car with its better handling, acceleration, braking, and fuel economy.

 

Take it from someone who worked as an OEM body design engineer....

No matter how strong your opinion nor how badly you feel about this, there are 3 simple facts that are too much for you to control or even have influence on, and I think it's that which makes you angry. These facts are:

1.) Increasingly aggressive, government mandated (read mandated) crash standards each year make vehicles heavier.

2.) Add ons for safety and otherwise (i.e. larger wheels, brakes, heavier suspension systems, electronics) make vehicles heavier.

3.) The market demands #1 and #2.

And with that, it's generally not possible for a car company to produce a lightweight car that meets all 3 of these at a price where enough people would buy it.

And another point is that most of the car buying public doesn't care about weight. Only select members on car enthusiast websites or in car clubs do. Just look at where the source of this article is; "auto extremist"

 

I agree about weight needing to be the #1 focus for all manufacturers going forward, even if it adds more cost to their vehicles.

However I do have a problem with the general assumption that you can only enjoy driving if you like cars that accelerate and handle well. There are definitely a lot of other ways to enjoy driving.

 

I almost got T-boned by a pickup speeding through a red light. I attribute my being here not breathing through a straw the rest of my life to a momentary lapse of attention on my part when I missed aboout 2 seconds of a green light picking up a CD I dropped on the floor. I would have been dead center of the intersection if I had gone.

Those who haven't gotten into an serious accident, or have had a close relative who has been very seriously injured in one, or have just barely escaped on themselves still think they are invincible, and things simply won't happen to them.

It can.

How far would you go in keeping your wife safe?

How about your 5 year old daughter?

While adding 600 pounds of safety equptment is a bit extreme, the odds of getting into an accident are actually a near certainty. The odds of getting into a serious accident average out to 1 for 50% of all drivers on the road...as in an accident that causes an injury.

Some numbers for you.

There are 3.5 million whiplash injuries in the US each year.

There were 1.8 million rear end impact accidents in 2005.

There were 1.8 million side and angle impact crashes.

There were 123K head on collisions.

There were 141K rollovers.

All fatal and nofatal automotive accident injuries cost over $600 billion annually.

Automotive accidents are the number one cause of preventable deaths in the US.

The numbers you quote seem to be more related to deaths via automotive accidents.

However, odds are all but certain you will be in a vehicle accident over the course of your life.

The odds of being in an injury accident are better than 50/50.

Odds of being in an accident that involves a hospital stay or worse is about 1 in 4 or 1 in 5 over your driving life.

A good chunk of those who wind up in the hospital and walk out in a day or two would be dead without today's safety items, like airbags, side door beams, thick crushable front end structures, and those huge brakes... all of which add weight.

Honestly, as much as I drive, and what I have seen on the road, and how others drive, and the fact that no one is ever going to increase the standards for getting a driver's license, and that humans as a group do occasionally do stupid things behind the wheel, I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

There's always eBay!

 

In general, mass is the enemy of the "fun to drive" factor...

99% of drivers don't buy a vehicle as a toy. They buy it as a tool.

There will always be a niche for the Miata, but the "fun to drive" factor won't be the driving force behind weight reduction, fuel economy will.

 

I guess what I'm saying is for some people a very loud car or a car without a solid/smooth ride is not fun to drive. They enjoy driving something that's responsive with handling/braking/acceleration, but would not have fun driving a car that excels in those three categories at the sacrifice of quietness, solidity, gadgets, etc.

Basically there are a lot of people out there that would honestly have more fun driving, say, a BMW M5 or CTS-V than they would, say, a Corvette Z06... even though the Z06 is lighter, more sprightly, and performs better. Some people just can't have fun when they're not comfortable... especially if it's a car they're driving day in and day out... certain driving characteristics that may be fun once a week are not fun on a daily basis.

 

When on my daily driving, sitting in traffic, a quiet calming experience is the best that I can ask for. Creature comforts make this happen. I doubt anyone has fun in a loud, rough riding car when going bumper to bumper.

Same thing on the highway on a long trip. The handling really doesn't matter too much. Passing power is important. Something to entertain the kids, and a quiet comfortable ride are the most important.

 

Doesn't the lighter SRX with fewer creature comforts go by the name "Equinox"?

 

Take all your saftey junk out and weigh it on a scale. It weighs something but not 1000lbs.

A steering wheel airbag is like 3lbs. Of course there's the 14 ounces of wiring people are all to quick to point out too.
The fact is cars got heavy and a lot of it was for no reason. Sure a little was saftey but not really. For every 3lb airbag we saved 100lbs going from to aluminum cylinder heads and blocks.
For every 14 ounces of wiring we saved some more weight going to plastic body panels or composite intakes.

Here's a few examples of my personal vehicles that were built light proving it can be done.
1995 z26 2600lbs -> (no equivalent) todays malibu 3400lbs
1996 4wd jeep cherokee 3100lbs ->todays chevy equinox 4wd 3600lbs
1991 camaro with c5 wheels, ls1 brakes and powertrain, 9" rear, t-tops and all power options 3480lbs today -> camaro 3900lbs

None of these vehicles got heavy because of saftey or gadgets, they got heavy because over all dimensions went up.

 

In the US, unless energy costs skyrocket (like 10x) and/or the economy totally collapses, the only way I see weight reduction happening in the US is through better materials, design, technology, and manufacturing. I don't see the US market moving over to drastically smaller cars with less amenities and safety features. Perhaps we'll move away from the full sized SUV and back down to a mid sized car, then again, if there was an affordable full sized SUV that got 50 mpg today, I bet people would flock to it.


It's just the way our US culture works. We always want to have our cake and eat it too, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.


The only way to do that is through better tech. Future cars are going to have to use lighter materials and advanced designs and manufacturing to lower the weight of cars, while keeping it affordable. The masses don't want a stripped car. Prove me wrong, bring the Tata Nano over here and lets see what happens.


Same goes with this "green movement". Sure, we could easily reduce our energy consumption through conservation and change of habits, but IMO, for the masses, they don't want to change their ways, they rather just have technology solve their problems (but without paying any more!).

 

I've seen 42xx for the FWD version. I've never seen 4500 for any version. GM has never said 4500lbs.

Cadillac.com should be updated in a few weeks then we will know for sure.

No. Does a lighter CTS with fewer creature comforts go by the name Cobalt. Or lighter Corvette with fewer creature comforts go by the name Spark?

 

All of these numbers are provided without context. All of this data is presented in this manner in order to scare you. The fact is that they're not as big as they sound.

Americans drove just under three trillion miles that year.

With that as context, we can now give some actual, meaningful numbers. Per mile driven, the odds are as follows:

Rear-end impact: 1 in 1.7 million (0.00006%)
Side or angle impact: 1 in 1.7 million (0.00006%)
Head-on collision: 1 in 24.3 million (0.0000041%)
Rollover: 1 in 21.3 million (0.0000047%)

Most Americans drive fewer than 15,000 miles per year, and drive for maybe 70 years of their lifetime. That's 1.05 million miles over a lifetime, and you know I'm being generous.

The U.S. GDP is 14.2 TRILLION. That puts those injuries at just over 4% of GDP. That's significant, but in a relative sense, it's not huge. Our annual defense budget is just about the same.

This is unclear. Do you mean that if you get in an accident, the odds that you get injured are 50/50? Or does it mean that over some span of time, your odds are 50/50 of being involved in an accident in which someone gets injured?