"Weight is the enemy of all good things when it comes to actually enjoying driving"
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
4% is huge for something unnecessary. Let say the average American works 5 days a week for 50 weeks a year. 10 of those days are just work to pay for accidents. I can think of better uses for 2 weeks of my time.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,507
From: Okemos, MI
Sure, in an ideal world, accidents wouldn't happen, but seriously... that's one of the most necessary things I can think of.
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Accidents are unnecessary. Yeah I know in an ideal world...... but it is a lot of money to fix something that wasn't broke in the first place. A lot of loss productivity due to negligence.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,448
From: Irving, TX
Going back to the point of this thread though, the 600 Billion number was compared to the 14 Trillion number of the GDP. It isn't really avoidable, but it can be decreased and just not by fewer accidents, but by safer vehicles. It would be interesting to note how much of the costs is in vehicle damage and how much is in injuries. If you can reduce both of those, it would be great.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Then there's no problem at all with the weight 
Here's an interesting tid-bit. I was able to go to a presentation by Tadge Juechter, the current Chief Engineer for Corvette. During the Q&A portion, someone asked if they ever considered a light weight stripped down version for more 'hardcore' customers.
The answer made total sense, he said: "There is a small but extremely loud group that asks this all of the time (maybe he's a member here ). We have considered this numerous times but what we find out is, even if we make something like what these people ask for, it doesn't sell well enough to justify the cost. As a result we leave this more or less up to the owner if they want to start removing interior or looking to the aftermarket for weight savings."
So there aren't even enough people to buy a true lightweight version of a performance oriented sportscar...why in heck would there be enough people interested in forsaking creature comforts and more options for weight savings in a run of the mill family car?
Like someone else posted, 95% couldn't care less, as long as they have the options they want and the car doesn't ride like a boat. I agree, except I think it's more like 98 or 99%.
Here's an interesting tid-bit. I was able to go to a presentation by Tadge Juechter, the current Chief Engineer for Corvette. During the Q&A portion, someone asked if they ever considered a light weight stripped down version for more 'hardcore' customers.
The answer made total sense, he said: "There is a small but extremely loud group that asks this all of the time (maybe he's a member here
). We have considered this numerous times but what we find out is, even if we make something like what these people ask for, it doesn't sell well enough to justify the cost. As a result we leave this more or less up to the owner if they want to start removing interior or looking to the aftermarket for weight savings."So there aren't even enough people to buy a true lightweight version of a performance oriented sportscar...why in heck would there be enough people interested in forsaking creature comforts and more options for weight savings in a run of the mill family car?
Like someone else posted, 95% couldn't care less, as long as they have the options they want and the car doesn't ride like a boat. I agree, except I think it's more like 98 or 99%.
Bottom line for me is that it takes lots of effort and focus, and yes some cost to to keep mass at bay. But it certainly can be done if that's your mission from the get-go. Look at Corvette and Miata for instance.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,712
From: Ontario
Take it from someone who worked as an OEM body design engineer....
No matter how strong your opinion nor how badly you feel about this, there are 3 simple facts that are too much for you to control or even have influence on, and I think it's that which makes you angry. These facts are:
1.) Increasingly aggressive, government mandated (read mandated) crash standards each year make vehicles heavier.
2.) Add ons for safety and otherwise (i.e. larger wheels, brakes, heavier suspension systems, electronics) make vehicles heavier.
3.) The market demands #1 and #2.
And with that, it's generally not possible for a car company to produce a lightweight car that meets all 3 of these at a price where enough people would buy it.
And another point is that most of the car buying public doesn't care about weight. Only select members on car enthusiast websites or in car clubs do. Just look at where the source of this article is; "auto extremist"
No matter how strong your opinion nor how badly you feel about this, there are 3 simple facts that are too much for you to control or even have influence on, and I think it's that which makes you angry. These facts are:
1.) Increasingly aggressive, government mandated (read mandated) crash standards each year make vehicles heavier.
2.) Add ons for safety and otherwise (i.e. larger wheels, brakes, heavier suspension systems, electronics) make vehicles heavier.
3.) The market demands #1 and #2.
And with that, it's generally not possible for a car company to produce a lightweight car that meets all 3 of these at a price where enough people would buy it.
And another point is that most of the car buying public doesn't care about weight. Only select members on car enthusiast websites or in car clubs do. Just look at where the source of this article is; "auto extremist"
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,154
From: All around
Overall, year by year, within a 10 year span, the Mazda 6 will gain considerable weight, even if its girth remains the same. The BMW 3 and 5 series - which focus on stripping weight - have gained a lot of weight.
Really, one of the *only* vehicles to keep the weight off is the Corvette - and there are noticed compromises to its design to keep that weight (and cost) where they think it should be.
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Look at Corvette and Miata for instance.
1989 Miata: 2100lb, 120hp, 100tq
2009 Miata: 2480lb, 167hp, 140tq (+18%, +39%, +40%)
1990 Camaro: 3250lb, 230hp, 300tq
2010 Camaro: 3860lb, 426hp, 420tq (+19%, +85%, +40%)
the Vette though...
1989 Vette : 3229lb, 245hp, 340tq
2009 Vette : 3217lb, 430hp, 424tq (-1%, +75%, +25%)
Just sayin.
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Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,224
From: CNY
People don't care about weight. Plain & simple.
If the car rides smooth & comfortable, is easy to drive, gets good mileage, has a good safety rating, and a good quality rating, then it's sold.
This is why the "appliances" are taking over the automotive world.
Very few people care about "driving".
If the car rides smooth & comfortable, is easy to drive, gets good mileage, has a good safety rating, and a good quality rating, then it's sold.
This is why the "appliances" are taking over the automotive world.
Very few people care about "driving".
Disciple
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,479
No. Does a lighter CTS with fewer creature comforts go by the name Cobalt. Or lighter Corvette with fewer creature comforts go by the name Spark?
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
This won't be a popular post... but maybe instead of taxing cars based just on fuel consumption, perhaps the govt could introduce a tax on vehicle mass?
That's the only way car makers would be forced to pay attention to mass. It would also force consumers to think carefully about how much they option up their cars.
Don't flame me for merely suggesting the idea, I'm just trying to figure out a way out of the car obesity epidemic we're facing!
Btw, flame suit on!
That's the only way car makers would be forced to pay attention to mass. It would also force consumers to think carefully about how much they option up their cars.
Don't flame me for merely suggesting the idea, I'm just trying to figure out a way out of the car obesity epidemic we're facing!
Btw, flame suit on!
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,448
From: Irving, TX
This won't be a popular post... but maybe instead of taxing cars based just on fuel consumption, perhaps the govt could introduce a tax on vehicle mass?
That's the only way car makers would be forced to pay attention to mass. It would also force consumers to think carefully about how much they option up their cars.
Don't flame me for merely suggesting the idea, I'm just trying to figure out a way out of the car obesity epidemic we're facing!
Btw, flame suit on!
That's the only way car makers would be forced to pay attention to mass. It would also force consumers to think carefully about how much they option up their cars.
Don't flame me for merely suggesting the idea, I'm just trying to figure out a way out of the car obesity epidemic we're facing!
Btw, flame suit on!
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY