V8 for the masses is great. That still doesn't make it a match for the small block. Even the 5.3 truck engine (or the 5.3 LS4) makes basically the same power and torque ratings as the 4.6 3 valve. I bet they'd have a hell of a time turning that engine sideways and putting it in a Fusion, too. Not taking away from the 4.6; I'm just saying that it is inexcusable IMO for the list of best ENGINES (not engine/vehicle combos) to not have the small block in one form or another.All true of small block, too. Plus the inherent cost, weight, and packaging advantages.A magazine that carries itself as something of an authority ( ) on the auto world ought to know better. While the sheepish masses might think the small block is "old tech" simply because it is an OHV configuration, a magazine like Ward's ought to know better. Further, they should be educating the masses, not playing to their misguided wishes. Perhaps the woefully inaccurate "stigma" could be eroded somewhat if magazines stopped saying crap like "low tech" and "ancient". I guarantee you that more development effort has gone into the small block (because so much volume depends on it) than just about any other engine on that list, save maybe the VQ or the Toyota/Lexus 3.5 (since those are like their "small blocks"; jacks of all trades that show up in several different models). Kinda like the small block...Kinda like the GM 3.6L VVT. So now the GM six is punished for being more high tech (in that it has VVT on both intake and exhaust)? It also is being developed with DI, and it also is going to be in a zillion different cars very soon (and is already in use in more models than the new Ford 3.5, since it's been out for a few years). The GM 3.6 is making up to 275 hp without DI. Used in Lacrosse, Caddy CTS/STS/SRX, Aura, G6, '08 Vue, new Suzuki GL7, Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia, Buick Enclave, etc.

So because they also offer the 3.5/3.9, that somehow lessens the impact of the 3.6?Where are you getting that they prioritize their emissions so differently? Emissions rollouts are determined by regulations, and certain volumes must be Bin x compliant (or ULEV, SULEV, etc.) by certain dates. The small block, and even the lowly, old school 3800, are extremely emissions friendly in terms of how difficult they are to calibrate and how much precious metals and volume are needed in their catalytic converters for them to achieve a given level. Whether an engine is given enough catalytic converter material and tuning to become ULEV or SULEV, or Bin 4 / Bin 5 level has a lot to do with the volume of the engine and when the regs say a certain percentage of your fleet must be at such and such level.

When I was working on Line 4/5 (Atlas) emissions, we were working on getting them down to Bin 5 levels, for the '07 model year IIRC. The next step is Bin 4...



Again, I'm not necessarily saying the 4.6 or the new 3.5 aren't great engines. I'm saying it is a travesty that no small block variant is on the list, while the 4.6 and Hemi (small block wannabe) are on the list. As for some of the other choices, like the VW/Audi 2.0L tha makes all of 200 hp with DI/turbo? Come on...Probably can't argue with the 3.5L VQ or Toyota 3.5L, either, as they are both refined and powerful and used in several different applications (as I said, kinda like the small block...).

 

Nevermind the stupid award - I'm talking common sense for a second.
In todays market, offering a 300hp V8 that is expected to be heavily modified and survive is a phenomenal feat. People slap blowers and turbos on Mustangs like a new set of floormats these days. '03/'04 Cobras are routinely 600-700hp cars on factory block and heads these days. 500hp 4.6's are ever-more common. Now I know for sure that there are wickedly powerful LSx engines too, but look at the volume of cars being modified and to what level. Which company do you think would fear for warranty claims?

That's probably the greatest thing about it - the 4.6 has really been pretty bulletproof and dynamic throughout it's life - be it police cruiser duty, hopped-up Mustang, or pickup truck powerplant. It'a a big, space-consuming encyclopedia of moving parts, but it works well. The 3V with timing control just makes it all that much more "different".

On top of the offering itself, you have to look hard to find ANY performance-oriented car that offers you a specified 300hp on 87 octane, and a warranty to boot. If you care to surf the web a while, please let me know who else has put this on the market. That alone makes it at least noteworthy IMO.

Since the GTO is on layoff, what else besides the Vette in GM's current American lineup is offering the LS2? At what volumes? Ford's popping out 100k of these 3V 4.6's a year in Mustang alone. So where's the risk?

I agree that it is not the revolutionary engine of all time, but it's a good one... pretty d@mn good one too at that. And it's not like it made it to the #1 slot in that list or anything. Sheesh... let's bash the n/a slant-six or something...

I grant you, that the LSx engine family is awesome - simple and strong. If anything, I could have expected to see the LS7 on the list just from the basic power output combined with mild-manners at low RPM. It truely is a beast.

 

Well said. No excuse for an LSx not to be on the list....NO excuse.

 

Proud, that's all well and good.

But I doubt they were taking aftermarket modability into account. Besides, it's not like the LSx engines don't take to mods well...

GTO may be gone, but the Vette is still around (and sells in over double the volume of the GTO anyway).

They listed the twin turbo BMW six from the 335i (I wonder what the volume will be on that model), a car that is priced quite similarly to a Vette. Why should the LS2 in the Vette not be enough volume to justify its presence?

The 3.5L six in the Lexus IS350 is the lowest volume, highest output tune of that engine, which is used in lesser states of tune in many other Toyota corp vehicles. So why couldn't the Vette LS2 (which probably sells in higher volume than the IS350, or is dang close anyway) be on the list as the evaluated version, but in a way representing the whole small block family?

 

LS2 > Hemi & 4.6L Mod

 

The 6.2L VVT LSx variant should be on the list.

 

Isn;t it fundameltally wrong to have the 4.6 Ford on thei list over any LS2/4/7?

The 4.6L is overall bigger, heavier, produces less power, and isn't proven to be any more fuel efficient.

Other than fuel economy, durability, overal size, weight, availability, power output, and maybe even some aftermarket credibility, what else falls into the equation?

 

I wonder if anyone here knows precisely what criteria Wards uses to judge engines for this list?

Might it not make some sense to know Wards’ criteria and whether the engines that made the list meet those criteria perhaps a bit better than the other choices (such as the LS series) before bashing the list?

I’m not trying to defend Wards here nor do I understand why no configuration of the LS engine isn’t on their list…I’m just suggesting that some are being a bit quick on the trigger to bash Wards for the lack of an LS engine on the list without having an idea of “why” it isn’t there.

It is just a magazine’s list after all…not exactly a Super Bowl trophy.

 

Look at my FIRST LINE in my post...

"Nevermind the stupid award - I'm talking common sense for a second. "



Musta read berrry carefully, grasshopper!

 

Yeah, yeah. I saw it.

But you still talked about the list in your post, and it is in fact the topic about which this thread was created...

No argument here that the 4.6L in the Mustang is a significant engine, though.

 

Significant with a supercharger . Otherwise, my stock 2002 LS1 can out-run a brand-spanking-new 2007 GT .

An LSx would be pretty darn significant with FI too . And the fact that they shine WITHOUT one is why it seems retarded that they're not included on that list!!

 

Well since you seem to want to defend Wards how about you find the criteria and post them here.

 

The 4.6 in the Crown Vic is far from being bulletproof, when put through the extremes of police work, and with its anemic power it feels like it accelerates while having the emergency brake on. I just don't understand why they don't put the 3V 4.6 in it, since the Explorer and ever other V8 Ford product has it.

Like the rest of you I don't understand why the LSx family is not on the list. The 303hp V8 in a main stream sedan like the Impala SS is not common place and with price of entry being $27K, plus getting 28 mpg highway and being faster than the all might Hemi powered Charger.

 

How the hell can you take what I said as a defense of Wards? Did you even read what I said?

If people want to rant and rave and argue about what engines made the list and why some didn't without making any attempt to know how they get there or why the magazine might have chosen them then who am I to interrupt.

 

I'm kind of surprised that an LSx engine didn't make it on the list.