Well, here are some prices for stangs in my area, the 26,000 cobra's i saw were for sale during the winter and have since been taken off autotrader due to them prob being sold. So weather you want to believe it or not its up to you but i dont have to prove nuthin to ya cause its what i know saw and asked for financing about

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...r=&cardist=136

This is for a mach 1 price is 26,000 but have seen them as low as 24.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...r=&cardist=136

this is for an 03 cobra couldnt find an 04 but this one is 29,000 i swear on my life i saw one for 26,000 bucks but that was back around december and it was prob bought up quick.

and this is an 2000 saleen stage 3 just for reference of prices up here
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...r=&cardist=136

 

Then why is wheelhop a major concern for GTO owners?
Here is another thread about it.
Another thread citing the issue not only in GTO, but in the CTS-v, which is rumored to have horrible wheelhop even with its superior chassis and driveline.
Wheelhop is more a function of tires, spring and shock rates and bushing durometer than the chassis of the vehicle in question. Which is why the issue is solved in almost all Cobras with a simple bushing swap. It's rumored that Lingenfelter was putting together an anti-wheelhop kit for GTO.
There is no "doorframe" on Mustang, and it passes all federally mandated crash tests. If the car is hit hard enough to impact the integrity of the roofline, I'd probably be concerned about other areas.
The quickest stock Cobras have gone 12.3's...the quickest stock Mach I's? 13.2's. That's almost a second...compared to a Mach I that is quicker than a GTO. Not surprisingly, a Mach I will be likely hang pretty close to a Cobra through 1st and 2nd...once the Cobra hits 3rd, it's over. From a roll (not necessarily my racing preference), it's not even close.
A $26k new Cobra would be helluva' deal, and I've not heard that story. But I've heard the aforementioned ones...and seen plenty of GTO's sitting on dealer lots with ridiculous markups and dealer adjustments. It's too bad these greedy dealers have ruined the sales of these cars thus far. The fact is that right now, Cobras can be had for a few thousand less than GTO's.
LOL...I'll stand by .8-1.0...and pulling hard through the traps. An 8+mph trap speed advantage is more than the LS1's had on the previous generation Cobras, and those comparisons usually ended with words like "stomped", "shellacking" and "gone".
There are plenty of '03/'04 Cobra owners who have defeated the speed limiter with a chip (or Predator, Hypertech, etc.) and run the cars near 170mph with no stability issues. Not driving one at those speeds first hand, I couldn't say. I can only comment that a Cobra is very stable and composed at speeds over 125mph (and they'll get there quite quickly). I'd be pretty certain that a GTO is also very stable at speed.
...and better brakes, a usable trunk, exclusivity, a plethora of modification options (that won't run the $2k+ of an LS1 H/C package), arguably more distinguishing looks, etc...again, IMO.
Although I personally like the look of the new GTO, it seems a point of contention with most people. If Pontiac dealers hadn't been playing the "limited production" card and were discounting, test driving and dealing on GTO's, I might have made a different decision about them.
S.

 

actually if you click on teh mach 1 link then click on the picture it will bring you to a menu of 3 pics click the middle one and look on the windshield. It says 24k on the winshield Told ya they could be had cheap up here, cause of summer prices are going up though

 

FYI, that Mach I for $24.4k has 11k miles on it. That's a ripoff. New Mach's can be had for less.
Even worse is that Cobra ad you linked. $29k for an '03 with 24k miles?!? You can buy a brand new '03 off a dealer lot for $28.7k.
S.

 

Just got off the phone with Richard Cooper of Metro Ford of Schenectady New York (great guy), and like every place else I've touched base with, they are selling Cobras at sticker, still $35,895 (he has exactly 3 left).

Ford IS NOT giving rebates, incentives, and nor are they discounting Cobras (repeat to yourselves as often as necessary ).

The only 2004 Cobras going at a lower price are "demonstrator" models & used cars (including rentals). Used 2003 Cobras are selling below $30,000.

Mach ones are still selling for sticker ($30,605 for the red automatic at Metro Ford), but they do have a $3000 cash back or 0% option. On May 5th, Ford is discounting Taurus and Mach1 an additional $500, so by then you should be able to pick one up for about $27,000 with an auto or about 26K with a stick, without dealer markup.

I'm not double checking prices to be malicious toward you, so don't take it that way. It's that there's a tendancy that people have here of boasting that they can get so-and-so car at completely absurd prices. Most are honest mistakes or the fact they aren't aware that the car they saw is used or a previous year model.

So unless some of you are comitting some type of oral & immoral cardinal act for your salesman's pleasure, you generally won't be getting more than the rebate plus factory sponsored discount, and an additional 2-5% haggle margin off the sticker price on the window.

Nobody sells at a loss.

 

I have seen first hand that cobra's are selling for below retail, maybe your speaking of the 04's but down here at South Bay ford, Los Angeles,CA. Thats where i purchased my stang and cobras were selling for 30,000. With alittle haggling i can see them go for 29,000.

 

12.3 stock maybe with slicks going downhill. SLPs GTO did 13.1 stock. Even if there are those Factory freaks out there, the Avg. Cobra is doing 12.9-13.0, avg GTO 13.4-13.6. I'm suprised we havn't seen a magazine comparo yet. I'll love to see MotorTrend do a Cobra vs. GTO vs. Mach1 and end this once and all.


My best friend has a modded '03 Cobra and at 155mph the back end feels like it is floating, the car doen't have the areodynamics for over 160mpg (but it easily has the power) a Cobra R spoiler would fix that.


H/C on the LS1 is cheap compared to a DOHC Cobra engine. Other than pully all the same or similar can be had for both engine.

 

Cobra's IRS simply doesn't effectively transmit power to the ground. Cadillac's CTS's wheelhop problem has nothing to do with Cobra's IRS or "superior" engineering. Not sure of the reasons behind it, so you could very well be right. Also, the CTSv's IRS has nothing to do with GTO's. CTS's IRS is mounted to a subframe while GTO's is a variation of a trailing arm attached directly to the body, nearly identical to the BMW3 series, BTW.

You have a certified 400 plus horsepower Mustang that barely outruns one with 100 certified horsepower less. You be the judge.


Pay a visit to recycle yards, and view any Mustang that has had a head on. Yes it passes all crash tests, but that roof still buckles very easily in crashes where other cars (F-bodies included) don't. Also, whatever you do, don't check out a cross section of Mustang's floorpan!

You just acknowledged my initial point about the IRS on the Cobra. Off the line and up to 30 mph, the Mach1 should be mincemeat, but the Cobra can't do anything to the Mach. On a rolling start where the rear suspension doesn't need to do alot of work, Cobra will walk away from a Mach 1. That IRS was made primarily to end the Mustang "2 step" on hard cornering and to improve handling, which it does. Unfortunately, it also adsorbs hard launches too.

Cobras will outrun Mach1s in the quarter, but stock Cobras won't get more than 1/2 second on a stock Mach 1. As distance increases, the gap becomes much greater.


Cobras can be had cheaper than GTOs because of dealer markup (pretty insane, but starting to come down), so I'm with ya on that one. The only dealer without a markup I've found is the one in Texas on Brandon's site. I could probally talk them into including a plane ticket from here to pick up the car in the deal.

[/b]LOL...I'll stand by .8-1.0...and pulling hard through the traps. An 8+mph trap speed advantage is more than the LS1's had on the previous generation Cobras, and those comparisons usually ended with words like "stomped", "shellacking" and "gone".
[/b]There are plenty of '03/'04 Cobra owners who have defeated the speed limiter with a chip (or Predator, Hypertech, etc.) and run the cars near 170mph with no stability issues. Not driving one at those speeds first hand, I couldn't say. I can only comment that a Cobra is very stable and composed at speeds over 125mph (and they'll get there quite quickly). I'd be pretty certain that a GTO is also very stable at speed.
[/b]...and better brakes, a usable trunk, exclusivity, a plethora of modification options (that won't run the $2k+ of an LS1 H/C package), arguably more distinguishing looks, etc...again, IMO.
Although I personally like the look of the new GTO, it seems a point of contention with most people. If Pontiac dealers hadn't been playing the "limited production" card and were discounting, test driving and dealing on GTO's, I might have made a different decision about them.
S. [/B][/QUOTE]

No debate from me here.

Though both cars suppose to have the same trunk space, GTO's looks notably smaller. I suspect that there is a safety cushion on all cars, so if Ford felt the Mustang had no issues up to 155, there should be at least a 10 mph gap before things get rocky. I haven't driven one at that speed either, just going by Ford's dogma.

Pontiac dealers have infact ruined GTO's start. I had no problem ponying up $32K for one knowing how Holden V-cars are built (pretty darn tough). But the $5-10,000 markups are just plan stupid IMHO. And I'm not inclined to go to Texas to get one just yet.

 

I respect you for the info you pass along to the rest of us, but you're way off base here. Just in the interest of spirited debate, and with no personal offense intended, I'm going to reply to a few of your points.

Calling dealers on the phone and asking how much they'll sell a car for is not the same as sitting at a table and working a deal. Repeat...not the same as sitting at a table and working a deal. Money talks, bullsh*t walks, and if you're not in front of the salesman you're not going to get the deal.
You are correct, Ford is not currently offering any incentives on '04 Cobras, and apparently neither is Metro Ford. Ford isn't selling you the car, the dealer is selling you the car, and in this day and age, if a local dealer won't give the deal, buyers go elsewhere.
That's a pretty bold statement...to vouch for buyers all over the country by stating that '04's won't sell for less than MSRP. It's also wrong. I had a price of $32,299 on an Oxford White '04 with chrome wheels at Oasis Ford in Old Bridge, N.J. two weeks ago (salesman's name was Bob Riordan). IMO, it wasn't a good enough deal considering I could have saved even more on an '03. I got a similiar price for a Torch Red '04 at Downs Ford the same week. That's $32.3k. FYI, that's A/D-plan and doesn't include dealer holdback or other dealer-based incentives.
New '03 Cobras are selling well below $30k for those looking for a deal. Not used, not demo cars not rentals...new.
At the dealer you talked to on the phone? C'mon. It's pretty well established that guys have been buying new Mach I's for $23-24k.
You're right. Last week I saw a post on SVTperformance.com in which guys were claiming to have seen ads for new '04's for $30k. They actually posted the dealer names, so I did some snooping. Here is one of the links. The posters in that thread misread Bethlehem Ford's ad and thought the car was selling for $21.9k. It wasn't, they didn't catch the "$3000 cash or trade equity" line.
Still, that particular car is below the $27.5k that you claim to be the best price on an '04 Mach I.
Here is another example from Falls River Ford in Mass.. Click on "new car specials" and scroll down to the '04 Cobra in the right column. A poster on SVTperformance.com mistakenly thought this car was selling for $29.9k. It was actually selling for $32.9k "after all rebates & $3000 cash or trade" Again...well below the $35.8k you're claiming is the best deal.
Selling below MSRP is not selling at a loss. Selling at or near invoice is not selling at a loss.
S.

 

Ah, South Bay Ford, know that place well. I visited them quite a few times when I was referbishing my SC when I was still in Long Beach.

The big difference between now and before is that nobody's willing to deal on Cobras since they have become relatively rare. Ford also as policy don't discount SVTs, though there were other incentives available on all Fords that carried over to Cobras.

I can imagine a $2,000 total discount off an SVT sticker, but any more than that & there's a catch involved (ie: used car, demonstrator car, rental fleet, or put $xxxx down).

Bottom line: You aren't going to get a Cobra below sticker now.

 

Hey, if you're going to use that contested SLP claim, I'll use the Cobra claim that I've seen. Strangely, that "stock" SLP car was .5 and 3-4mph faster than any other GTO out there. Let's see a few more that even run quicker than a 13.5, and I'd be more willing to believe it. I have a friend who works at SLP. I've been meaning to call and ask him about that GTO. 13.4-13.6 are the quicker GTO's...it's pretty darn easy to find a bevy of them running 14.0's and slower. And FYI, I still don't believe the sole claim of a 13.3@104 with a 1.91 short time (on stock tires at 20psi!!!) made by a GTO owner a month or so ago. Call me skeptical or practical or label me a hater...I just don't believe it. I've seen bone stock '03/'04 Cobras going 12.6's...so I'm more inclined to believe a 12.3 claim.
MM&FF did a Cobra vs. Mach I vs. GT comparison a few months ago. Even using a Cobra 'vert as a test car, it convincingly beat both the Mach I and the GT at the strip and on the E-town road course.
Unless I'm mistaken, the speed limiter actually hits at 159mph. In any case, I wouldn't be doing that on a public road, so I really couldn't comment. I can say that they're solid as a rock in the 125-130mph range...as are many other cars, I'm sure.
Why would anybody do H/C on a 4.6 DOHC? Ponder this. A local shop, 5-minutes from my office, offers a fully tuned package for the '03/'04 Cobras that includes a pulley/MAF/inlet and dyno tuning for $1500. Result? 450rwhp/460rwtq an mid-11's at 121-122mph on an otherwise stock '03/'04 Cobra with a sticky tire. Furthermore, it offers an increase in fuel efficiency because the stock programming is pig rich (often with A/F's under 10.0). Owners have seen increases of up to 2mpg in mixed driving. Takes about 1-2 hours for this package to be installed and tuned. Bigger gains will be seen from certain mods on an Cobra simply because it's an FI application.
S.

 

Metro Ford is the closest SVT dealer to where I live, a few months back they were selling 10th anni Cobras for $1000 over MSRP, regular Cobras for full sticker price.

I have seen brand new '03 Cobras for just over $31K out in Detroit (invoice?) but that made me wonder..... if these cars are limited edition and selling hot, why are there still new 2003s for sale when '04s have been out for over 6 months?

 

Barely? There you go again.
No I didn't. The gearing, torque and hp curves and traction are what keep both close through 1st and 2nd gear. The Mach has superior gearing in 1st and 2nd gear compared to the Cobra. It's got a 3.38 1st and a 2.00 2nd compared to the Cobra's 2.66 1st and 1.78 2nd. In third, the Mach is at a 1.32 ratio, the Cobra at 1.30, both with a 3.55 rear. It's at this point the Cobra begins to walk away with superior power. Think of it this way...a previous generation Cobra stuck with an LS1 through 1st and 2nd gear. In 3rd, the LS1 walked away from the 4.6. Put a set of DR's on the both and watch what happens. Of course, a tire like that wouldn't be on a production vehicle.
And again, I’ll continue to disagree. The quickest Cobras have outrun the quickest Mach 1’s by nearly a second.
Damn. I haven’t seen the $5-10k markups…the $2-3k markups were enough.
S.

 

Snorman I would just like to say this you are on a Chevy pro GM board you can't convince everyone that Ford is better so just save your fingers the typing and call it a difference of opinions. I would say the Cobra is probably a little faster, how much so I don't have a clue because I haven't ridden in either car and I haven't seen 2 brand new cars race. Until I see them race it is a moot point.

*Note I am not subscribing to this because I know it will get dragged out to 8 or 9 pages and my inbox fills pretty quick as is.

 

Now that's a pretty silly comment considering I'm not trying to convince anyone that Ford is "better".
I'm presenting facts as I see them. If you weren't concerned, why bother commenting?

S.