Well, "Viper" isn't a volume channel -- it doesn't require 3-4 vehicles and a separate dealer network. If it stops selling, it can go away cheaply.

And I grew up in Volvos and Saabs, so I would buy one ... if they made one I liked. It's too bad -- 20 years ago Saab was in the same league as Volvo and Audi. If they took it seriously, they could get back there and sell to the Seinfelds of the world. Unlike monster trucks, you *know* there will always be a demand for european sport sedans.

 

I've said it once, and I'll say it again and again. Replacing Wagoner is probally the worse thing that can happen to anyone who wants GM to have a crack at surviving intact.

Like I posted in another thread, anyone with more of an eye on immediate stock value and Wall Street support is going to wonder why GM needs Buick when they have Cadillac? What purpose is Pontiac if there is Chevrolet (FWIW: Sky can easily take over as sole Kappa sports car)? Why is GM paying massive money to market the same truck line under 2 names? If Saab isn't being made in Sweden, why is it being continued?

Other questions likely to crop up to a new GM CEO:
* Why are do we need a revised RWD Kappa as a sedan when we have the FWD Delta chassis?
* Why do we need 3 RWD structures (Sigma, Zeta, and "Zeta 2")?
* If Saturn & Opel are combined, then why not combine Chevrolet and Holden (after all, that's done to a smaller degree in the middle east), and separate the names via continents just like Opel-Saturn?

I'll admit Wagoner is a connection with the old GM, and I've slammed him in the past as being far too slow in changing GM to meet the demands of today (it took last year's collaspe to get him to get GM's act together...NOW!), there is no one who is more devoted to finding money to get products online and no one who has proven more adept at getting the UAW on board than he's proven to be. Perhaps in the future someone will convince me he wasn't the right man for the job, but at the moment, I don't see anyone else on the horizon that won't bring GM back to profitablilty on the backs of major product development cuts and divisional merging or termination.


Unless your screen name is Buickman, or you are happy with GM being Chevrolet-Holden, Cadillac, Opel-Saturn, and maybe Hummer, and see no need in GM considering RWD midsize or small cars and want to see alot of vehicles in the pipeline frozen, this isn't good news.

 

because I dont agree with you. Hummer is a direct competitor to landrover. The only Hummer that doesnt share a platform is the H1 and that ceases production shortly for the public. Are you going to sell it and continue to produce a colorodo based Plat for the H3 for a competitor? How about a Tahoe based H2 or H2 SUT? You CANT sell it literally if you wanted to! Who is going to buy a company that has none of its own platforms other than one model? Ford could try to base it off their trucks but Studebaker already did that when they coppied the H2 on a F250 plat and Called it the XUV. Ford cant base the H3 off the Ranger because the ranger being the only compact truck left is the wrong size for H3. Toyota already has the Mega Cruiser which is direct H1 competition, Land cruiser, and FJ Cruiser. The only thing they could do is sell it to their new partner Nissan and produce it for them I guess they could try to base it off the Armada but why if they have a share in GM?

Im sure you know Jeep is where Hummer came from. AMC Jeep then American General HMMV(Hummer) after Jeep got sold to Chrysler, and now GM Hummer. Its no stretch of the immagination that Hummer could and should be like Jeep or more appropriately, Land Rover which literally started out as an old WWII Jeep and evolved into what it is today. The LandRover Defender is the British answer to the H1.

I agree that it isnt a large part of the market right now, but it is part of the market. There have been Jeepers since WWII and people trying to do so even before that. Its a 100 year old Fad. If either gas prices come down or there is an alternative fuel that makes it more inviting it might become more of the market. Same goes with Muscle/Pony car enthusiasts. Im certainly not for axing it, its more than just a rebadge.

20 years ago Saab was an ugly box. Hell 10 years ago it was an ugly box. I cant lie, the Aero gave me some hope for the brand. It was the only Saab I thought was drop dead gorgious I hope that is the new look of the car and it does well.

Youre saying Saab is better than Hummer because of your tastes though. I guess on mans Hummer is another mans Saab...

 

I thought Zeta 2 replaced Zeta?

 

I just lost a sale on a Caravan to a lady that bought a Kia Sedona SOLELY because of the damn warranty!

 

Not at all. GM's plans to sell 100K Hummers a year - it's not going to be a luxury niche brand like Rover.

How are they planning to do this? By killing other SUVs like Trailblazer.

Possibly so, but I see a lot more Volvos, Audis, and BMWs than I do Hummers and other macho SUVs. It seems like a much more established market.

 

Luxury is only a small part of Land Rover. Theres absoloutely NOTHING luxury about the Defender BTW. It was designed so you could take a hose to the interior to get the mud out. Unfortunatley the Defender isnt legal here anymore because of no side impact bars but with the size of that frame they didnt need it. A buddy of mine had a 1998 Defender 90 new. We had it through the woods and back. They are impressive! Their main goal is and always has been off road capabilities from day one. They arent used in Africa or the British military for luxury...

What do BMW, Audi and Volvo have to do with Saab? You differentiate Landrover and Hummer but then in the same breath lump Saab with Audi, Volvo and BMW or better yet dont mention Saab at all? How does that work? Of course you see more of three brands that arent Saab than the one brand Hummer.

 

I like the sound of that myself