government conspiracy theories?


anyways, according to carpoint:

2004 VW Jetta TDI (MSRP $18,670 - $20,480):
city: 33 - 38
hwy: 44 - 46

2004 honda civic sedan (MSRP $13,000 - $18,000+):
city: 29 - 32
hwy: 37 - 38

 

The Chrysler Diesels are apparently being cancelled too. FWIW diesles will get better real world mileage...they're punchy off the line...and chips give them rediculous amounts of power.

 

So does propane and N2O

 

The previous gen Civic HX (their most fuel efficient and value priced model - 117hp) got 36 city, 44 highway which is very comparable to the TDI VW.

To this day that's commonly cited as the reason as the reason why the Supra was pulled off the market so suddenly. I have no idea if it's true - just pointing out the only potential counterpoint if they werent' given much warning. If they were then why not better future planning?

See above.

 

The HX is one of the best kept secrets among Hondas. All Civics except for Si used the same 1.7L engine, producing 115/117 HP and 115/117 lb-ft torque, yet somehow the HX got significantly higher mpg.

With CVT it got worse mileage than regular automatic, interestingly enough.

 

the HX is not a sedan

IIRC the jetta is only sold as a sedan

 

Nobody has said anything about coupe or sedan. Are you reaching for the back pedal or something?

I said
Both you and muckz told me I was wrong.

I wasn't.

 

well with that line of thought a 3-cyl geo metro wins against both cars

 

I guess... the 55 horsepower 3-cyl suzuki powered metro got 44/49 and ceased to be produced in 1996.

The ultimate case study that low displacement and low weight = good MPG.

My entire point was to point out that while my brother in law's TDI gets good milage, there were other comparable choices that would have gotten him just as good of milage with a gasoline motor and most likely far better reliability to boot.

I think we can admit that an 04 civic hx would have been a more realistic choice for him than a 97 metro 3-cyl when cross-shopping an 04 Jetta TDI.

 

not if he wanted 4 doors, then he'd have to get the lower fuel economy version of the civic


but then again, the civic will always be cheaper than the TDI, washing away all gas savings

 

Or today you can go with the civic hybrid, which is too expensive IMO - but at least likely comparable to the TDI.

I'm really not worried too much about any of the fuel saving technologies out there.

I WOULD on the other hand be happy to buy an E85 capable vehicle if the gas station infrastructure was out there simply to make sure 85% of the material cost portion of my dollars are going toward domestic farmers (that's assuming it stays that way and the arabs don't find a way to grow corn in sand... lol)

Until then I'll get excited when I see fuel cells in the mass market.

 

I say good riddance. I can't stand VW diesels. Slow, noisy, vibrating, black bumper, and polluting. The Honda Civic is a way nicer car.

 

I think it is about 7 years, roughly the same as the crash test standars.

Some guys I talked to at the Ford KTP, makes the SD trucks, and they said the cooling systems are getting MUCH larger and more complex (they said this after running a few mules down the line with new components). Also emissions are the reason for the 2nd turbo. How many late nights has this caused for you, Joe?

 

Well, still no 50 mpg like you said but i admit, i did not know of Civic HX. Hence my surprise.

 

E85 gets worse mpg than gasoline. Popular Mechanics (April issue) did some fuel cost and mpg comparison, and concluded that it costs more to operate a vehicle on E85.

I would be excited about this fuel more if the costs per mile were comparable to gasoline.