This is because of the waiting list for orders of new, and availability of use.

And for years we've been told that there is no demand for efficiency.

And yet people STILL believe it, to this day



Anyways, to make this into a participation thread and not a rant What impact will this have on the automotive industry?

If they ever create a Hybrid that has highway efficiency (or at least, improves it) I'm on that focker. I live in the central valley (California) and I love to regularly drive to the coastal beaches.

 

Where are you at in the valley? I needed help pulling my heads today!

We are looking to get rid of my girlfriends 04 mustang to get something more family friendly, and she really likes the prius. That's too bad you can't get a deal on a used one.

 

There will always be a segment of the market that looks only at fuel efficiency, but for the market as a whole it's not their number one priority. You can't draw conclusions about the entire market based on the success of one niche vehicle.

The Prius is a novelty, it's the "in" thing right now, and that has bouyed its sales. But if hybrids ever go mass market they will have to be priced more in line with their costs (Toyota loses money on every Prius, unlike a Camry). Even at today's prices it is almost impossible to recover the additional vehicle cost through fuel savings. Once the true economics are factored in and the novelty wears off, hybrids will be far less appealing to most folks.

 

is the hybrid civic anywhere near as efficient as the normal civic? is honda selling those for a profit or are they selling at a loss like toyota?

edit:
just checked the honda website, damn thats an expensive option ...

 

Hybrids are a way of exploiting EPA mileage test procedures for PR gain. The VW TDI cars are more efficient, in the real world, and much more conventional, IE: Someone OTHER than Toyonda can work on it.

Same thing with GM's hybrid silverados. Do they help the consumer use less fuel? Its arguable. Do they help GM's CAFE? Absolutely. Are they good PR? That too.

 

It's pretty obvious that Hybrids don't make economic sense even if gasoline prices reach $3/gallon. Of course, the ugly truth is that Hybrid ownership is a meaningless fashion statement.

Nobody wants to admit it, but a Hybrid buyer who benefits from state and federal tax credits are no more socially responsible than the people who bought first year Hummer H2s as tax write offs. That's right, Hybrid owners are taking advantage of the system just as much as those Hummer owners.

 

I understand EPA ratings might be a bit inflated...but on messae boards i've read Prius owners are getting right around 50mpg city. That's pretty damn impressive. The reason there is a tax break for hybrid ownership is becuase the electric motor GREATLY reduces emissions becuase it is primarily what propels the vehicle during initial acceleration (when a gasoline/deisel engine produces most of it's emissions). To compare the hybrid vehicle tax break to that of people using a business truck deduction to buy an H2 is ridiculous. One is a loophole the other is a legitimate deduction.

 

Here's an idea...make the thing more appealing than dead, rotting road kill.

 

You don't hear Prius owners "bragging" about their less than impressive highway mileage. There's nothing about a Prius that can be described as "pretty damn impressive" except for the irrational hysteria surrounding the car.

The reason there's a Hybrid tax break is become some "special interest group" lobbied lawmakers for it.

Trust me, there isn't any functional, moral or ethical diference between the goverment tax credits for buying a Prius and tax deductions that resulted from buying a Hummer H2. The big difference is that the Hummer-sized tax loophole for big SUVs was closed, but Hybrid buyers are still allowed to take advantage of other taxpayers.

 

Go do some more poking, and Id bet youd find that those numbers are being reported by someone who drives with no A/C or heat, and drives ONLY in the city, with no mixed driving.

 

all i've heard are about 41-42 myself
mixed driving

 

WOW, All the planets must be perfectly aligned today. I 100% agree with you on this

 

Actually if you do some poking you'll find out that they've just learned how to drive a hybrid right. There is a difference between driving a regular car for max efficiency and a hybrid for max efficiency, without having to cut youself off from convenience items like air conditioning and cd players and windows down, etc etc... The biggest part is using momentum correctly, taking advantage of "auto-stop" and accelerating correctly. Finding the "sweet spot" where efficiency spikes for whatever mechanical reason and staying there. Once you learn how to do all these things, you can just completely annihilate the EPA ratings. If Hybrids end up catching on and can saturate the market enough to where most people have driven one or will currently drive one, the general car driving public will find out that EPA ratings are actually more inflated for regular conventional vehicles than hybrids.

 

My Insight got around 60 MPG when cruising at 65-70 MPH...but that had absolutely nothing to do with the electric motor being there, it was probably insignificantly detrimental to my highway MPG as well...

Used Prius's have had more value than New Prius MSRP for well over a year now

 

The costs are high because the production costs are all loaded on very little production numbers. Whoever has the most sales in the long run with these hybrids in the long run, will recover the R/D costs, and after that the costs of those cars will also go down.

On the political aspect, I'd like to see a politician try to take away the incentives for hybrids...who is going to do it? The libertarians? Goodness knows the Republicans haven't been 'conservative' fiscally since Reagans presidency ran up.