The only problem is, MAJORITY CONTROLLING SHARES is not the definition the idustry goes by; it's just the definition GM wants to go by now.

 

'eh, never seemed to bother the industry before now :dunno:...

 

It's never bothered anybody before because before now, everybody played by the same rules.

 

 

Every time GM tries to stretch this out, the media runs another "Toyota surpasses GM" story. Give it up already.

 

Ok so what are American and Japanese companies to do with Chinese car companies that won't give up a majority ownership? You know that communist China isn't likely to just allow their govt. subsidized car companies get bought out by foreign legacy automakers. You act like these rules are in stone but China isn't like other countries. I take it from your responses that this has not been done in the past. I'm never too crutial on sales because there can be lots of fudging opportunites. My only point would be that maybe the what was done before will change now with China's sales and business ways are different.

Was it always customary to count sales of majority owned companies? I could see times in the past that only companies owned 100% would be counted for anothers sales.

IMO profits are the golden rule and if GM made a profit off Wulling then it wouldn't bother me if they counted the sales or not.

 

What they "are to do" is simple - follow the standard; you don't change it just because it becomes inconvenient.

I can’t say from personal knowledge how long the 50% standard has been followed but I believe longer than most of us here have been walking around.

The real issue here for me is GM’s gyrations to retain the No. 1 spot while concurrently claiming that it doesn’t really matter…if it doesn’t matter, why keep changing the reporting standards that have been in place???

In prior years, GM has always rounded its sales figures to the nearest 10K units – but not this year…I’m sure that change in reporting couldn’t be because continuing to report that way this year would mean Toyota would be No. 1 (even including its China subsidiaries’ sales).

What is GM going to say when Toyota decides to include its China subsidiaries’’ sales and doing so puts Toyota over the top? Who is to stop Toyota from claiming sales for a sub it only owns 10% in? 5%?

Either there is a standard or there isn't.

 

GM finds another way to 'cook the books'.

 

Does Toyota actually own any stakes in Chinese car companies? And also, how high does the Chinese Government rank on the car manufacturers list?

 

The short answer is yes, Toyota does.

As to the Chinese government, I'm not sure what you are asking. What I do know is that almost every existing auto manufracturer is falling all over itself to do business in China - it's seen as a huge emerging market for cars (thanks in no small part to all the money we (the U.S.) sends there for all the junk we buy from them.

You might find this interesting from GOLIATH Business Knowledge On Demand...
Unfortunately; the above article doesn't mention Toyota's investment in terms of % of ownership of any of its partners.

 

Yeah I was just curious what size stakes Toyota had in Chinese car companies.

As for the next question, since the numbers are quoted by tallying all the cars put out by companies you own more than 50% in, than how many cars does the Chinese Government make, and what is their rank in the list of manufacturers?

 

What if Toyota has the same amount of shares and included thier volume in the numbers they put out?
Being a communist country the rules of ownership might be different and dictate that 34% is a controlling share...
If the country is the 50% share holder and by rule and law in a communist country that never changes..then you do not count that as public share..almost like it is never there..its the goverments share..so its not even considered..
The rest of the 50% might be owned by the actual company..34% of that is owned by GM and the 16% is the actual compnay founders who are backed by GM and its money..If that is the case then GM as a company is the majority owner the goverment is not a company but a regulation of power and therfore do not act as the owner just the keeper of the company..

 

and how many are rip offs of other manufacturers.

 

No offense intended but everyone can try to stretch and contort the 34% all they want but 34% is not 50% and it never will be.

GM has decided not to play by the rules because if it does, it can't claim the No. 1 crown anymore; it's really just that simple.

 

I think we have all made our points here. You stick with the 50% rule. Questions have been raised as to how that rule must work with communist China and their joint ownership and if the 50% rule was always in play for all players. That's all great for here on this thread.

But let's say the media doesn't catch on to this and when Toyota releases their figures GM stays ahead because of the Wulling sales. GM has defended their sales in the media and then GM is crowned the world sales leader for the 77th straight year. Are you not going to recognize that feat as some Seattle Seahawk fans refuse to recognize the Pittsburg Steelers as champs of Super Bowl XL?