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Toyota posts first loss, sees worse ahead

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Old May 12, 2009 | 03:44 PM
  #31  
ProudPony's Avatar
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Originally Posted by formula79
My personal opinion is that I don't think that the GM of the last 5-6 years was "mismanaged" from a prouduct perspective. The product we have on the road is great..and I think 30 years from now we will consider it a golden age. GM factories are some of the most efficiant in the world, the quality is there to go toe to toe with anyone. The concessions the current GM management got from the UAW *before* the bailout were undreamable 10 years ago.

Many of the bad decisions were made with the goal of being as profitable as possible (too much investment in SUV's), or under pure duress (selling and seperating off GMAC because otherwise it could not get capital).
Your opinion respectfully accepted. And I agree GM has done some great things like their dominance in China and the rebirth of Caddy for example.

However...
My opinion is that throwing tens-of-millions into a development, showing it to the public, and cancelling the project when it is days from Job-1 date is poor management. Offering 2, 3, or even 4 versions of the same basic car under various names and plastic skins is poor management. Offer 1 and do it well... don't waste the developmental costs on doing 4 cosmetic variations of the same vehicle under different badges. As for market trends... how many SUVs does one brand/company need to offer? Escalade, Denali, Yukon, Suburban, Tahoe... put them all on the opposite end of a football field and stare at them.

I know these are just my ramblings, but in my humble opinion, GM has in fact been mis-managed for the last decade and was long overdue for a major rebuild. We can easily see some great successes like Caddy's turnaround and the G8, but let's be honest with ourselves and make a pereto with successes and failures and see which one is more heavily loaded. Aztek. SSR. The whole Geo thing. Saturn's slide. The Fiat fiasco. etc. etc. I hope (sincerely and in a polite way) that you can see where I am coming from on this. It's not just the quality of the upholstery material in the 2009 Acadia that I am basing my decision on... it's the whole ball game over the last 10-15 years. It simply hasn't been all that it could have been.
Old May 12, 2009 | 03:48 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Bearcat Steve
It matters not which currency is used to report earnings. Toyota USA reports their earnings to the U.S. Government and pays taxes in U.S. dollars. The parent company is headquartered in Japan so the publicly traded Toyota reports their earnings in Japanese Yen. Pretty simple.

As for where does the money go, again the answer is quite simple. It goes to the stockholders. If you want to buy shares of Toyota, you certainly may do so and you thusly share in the profits.

As I have pointed out before, the notion of an "American" car company or a "foreign" car company is merely a quaint vestige of the past and truly has no real meaning within the context of a global company.
I want to buy some of your glasses.

Lastly, regarding the demise of Toyota, their cash position as well as cash flow as differentiated from profit, will keep them in good stead long after I take my last breath on this planet.
So said the public of Enron, Arthur Andersen, Ma-Bell, and Standard Oil too.
Be careful of your impulses.
Old May 12, 2009 | 04:03 PM
  #33  
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To anyone who may have read my earlier post regarding the yen...
I was not really wanting someone to describe why they use the yen or how important it is/is not. I was being facetious.
I actually know pretty well how companies report their incomes. I'm over 17 now and I finished my economics class with pretty decent grades.


Now back to the serious stuff...
Originally Posted by Route66Wanderer
Toyota makes cars in the U.S. and other locations in the world. It's world headquarters are in Japan and under accounting rules, when Toyota reports its financial results it reports in yen.

GM makes cars in the U.S. and other locations in the world. It's world headquarters are in the U.S. and under accounting rules, when GM reports its financial results it reports in U.S. dollars.

So what?

The cars made by both companies in the U.S. are made in the U.S. and those that are not; are not.

On a related topic, Automotive News is now reporting that GM plans to start importing cars made in China to sell in the U.S.

LINK: http://www.autonews.com/article/2009...905119971/1131

I'm not sure I'd throw too many stones at Toyota and as I said in an earlier post in this thread; this is not a time to be rejoicing over any car company's losses.
My point is that it DOES matter where the money is "claimed" for income and taxation. Let the dollar fall against the yen by 5%-10% and see "so what".

I will become one of the most anti-GM critics ever if they decide to blatantly design, develop, and build GM cars in China and ship them here for retail sale. It flies in the face of everything they have stood for for years. "The Heartbeat of America"... "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet"...
Any of this ringing with anyone? Beyond a "bad" decision IMO... a terminal decision.

Lastly, I'm not throwing a single stone at Toyota. I stated FACTS to back up an opinion. My job is funded by money from almost every OEM making a car or truck. I don't want to see any of them go down. But I also think Toyota has a holier-than-thou attitude that is quickly coming home to roost on them.
Please see the difference... I am not wishing them failure, as an insider I'm trying to describe the forrest I see behind the tree we are discussing.
Old May 12, 2009 | 04:11 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by ProudPony
To anyone who may have read my earlier post regarding the yen...
I was not really wanting someone to describe why they use the yen or how important it is/is not. I was being facetious.
I actually know pretty well how companies report their incomes. I'm over 17 now and I finished my economics class with pretty decent grades.


Now back to the serious stuff...


My point is that it DOES matter where the money is "claimed" for income and taxation. Let the dollar fall against the yen by 5%-10% and see "so what".

I will become one of the most anti-GM critics ever if they decide to blatantly design, develop, and build GM cars in China and ship them here for retail sale. It flies in the face of everything they have stood for for years. "The Heartbeat of America"... "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet"...
Any of this ringing with anyone? Beyond a "bad" decision IMO... a terminal decision.

Lastly, I'm not throwing a single stone at Toyota. I stated FACTS to back up an opinion. My job is funded by money from almost every OEM making a car or truck. I don't want to see any of them go down. But I also think Toyota has a holier-than-thou attitude that is quickly coming home to roost on them.
Please see the difference... I am not wishing them failure, as an insider I'm trying to describe the forrest I see behind the tree we are discussing.
The profits any company makes from their business conducted in the U.S. (it doesn't even matter where the merchandise is made) are assessed U.S. Income Taxes; it has nothing to do with where their world headquarters is located or what currency they report use in reporting their annual financial results.

Last edited by Route66Wanderer; May 12, 2009 at 04:14 PM.
Old May 12, 2009 | 04:16 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by ProudPony
I will become one of the most anti-GM critics ever if they decide to blatantly design, develop, and build GM cars in China and ship them here for retail sale. It flies in the face of everything they have stood for for years. "The Heartbeat of America"... "Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet"...
Any of this ringing with anyone?
Uh no. It's an archaic line of thinking that hasn't been factually correct in almost 30 years, and that's probably being generous. The Big 3 love to play on the patriotic heartstrings of the American public, but the arguement is hollow.
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