Just look at it this way.

By GM still using the Camaro nameplate in its advertizements, it is telling us that it still values the nameplate and what it stands for. The fact that Chevrolet is still using the marque to promote the Chevrolet name means that it is a valuable part of the Chevrolet lineup.

You should be gratefull Chevrolet is still using the Camaro in its ads, because if they were not, then it would mean the name had no value, and no future.

 

Now this is all from research...thinking as a business man...not a car guy...especially since no one at GM is talking about the car...

GM is not perfect....and I have no problem admitting that. The Camaro was killed for reasons many of you do no know...nor understand. Let me just say if you were in the same place you would have done the same thing. You have to close a few factories because you have extra capacity....so you decide that since you are closing UAW factories you have to close a CAW one also. Problem is there are three plants one the makes trucks and is at capacity, another that makes the W body and is so busy you are adding a third shift....and the F-body plant which is hugly underutilized and has a lame duck chassis? Would you pay for a factory with a 300,000 car capacity to build 70,000? Would you continue to hire workers in a country where after you hire them you have to pay or employ them for 10 years? Would you continue to do buisness with a union that ties a product name into it's contracts? You cancel a car you can't use that products name for 3 years afterwards on any car built anywhere else? On top of that the plant and it's workers turn out a product that is generally considered your lowest in quality yet you can't fix teh problem because sales or so low it will destroy your profit margin. Would you sink all your development dollars in a car that makes a few hundred a copy or a nice truck line that makes thousands a copy? Remember it's not like people bought enough F-bodies to make GM say "Hey do I wanna keep making this car?" Sales dropped from over 200,000 copies a year to under 70,000 in 7 years...against a slower Mustang with the same number of styling updates. It's fine to scream "We love the Camaro and **** GM for cancelling it" but at least 75% of those same people people don't own a newer 98+ Camaro...nor have the means to buy one. GM is a business they build cars that people will actually buy...not cry for and then not buy.

 

Well said.

It still hurts a bit though.

Jeff

 

I agree with everything said so far...

But one thing to consider about the CAW contract and the Camaro/Firebird name is that GM agreed to that as well.

So, it's not like it is only because of the CAW.

 

True...but keep in mind that contract was probaly signed at a much different time in GM's administration...probaly during Roger Smith or whatever the first Smith chairman was...he really screwed thier manufacturing operations up.

 

Absolutely!!!

That's why, as tough as it is, I am willing to let the new group of people get their ducks in a row, and fix the shameful mess that former people in power had left behind.

 

True..

still, it leaves an awkward taste when you see an Chevy ad with a Camaro in it... then you remember they stopped production of the Camaro.... start to wonder if people are talking to each other inside GM..

 

At least Chevrolet is embracing the marque. Camaro is Chevrolet IMO.


This is a good thing.

 

The only trick in that decision making process is that in ' 97 , Camaro sales were still in the almost 100K range.

See: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...&threadid=7419

In '98 , they dipped considerably, and continued to plummet through their 'demise".

I'd venture to guess that had a lot to do with a discontinuation of advertising. Why discontinue big advertising unless you have already decided to kill the line ?


AS far as the union/car name tie, I agree w/ Darth's comment that both parties had to sign that contract.

I dunno about the Canadian 10 year employ rule, but wouldn't you want to run your guys for the full 10 years ( ' 93 - ' 03 ) if that were the case ?

As far as quality, if you have already decided the only option is to kill the line, then your point is valid.

If you accept that there is a problem , and furthermore indicate to the workers that we either get these built to X standard ( whatever X may be ) or bye bye plant , I would hope that the quality would improve - again, assuming that you have not decided to kill off the line.

And if you are producing a peak of 173K cars ( ' 95 ) in a plant produced for 300K , then it seems you are oversized for the product to begin with.


Anyway, all these are interesting theories - maybe even correct ones - that I guess we will all be privvy to here in a few years.

Makes ya wonder , doesn't it ??

My .02 or .03 anyway.

Britt

 

Yea, but its funny how Chevy sold over 200k Camaros in 1967 when the population in the US was ALOT less than it is now. $25 to $30K is too much for the younger crowd to afford, and the Camaro became too much of a Purist car.

 

At least we can always look at the bright side. By completely killing this line, we will be assured of a brand spanking new design, inside and out. The '82 was a knockout, it won Car of the Year for heavens sake, and even though I wasn't around for the 70 1/2, I imagine it was just as exotic as the '82 was in it's time. I personally look forward to getting in on a completly new design Camaro, conceived on the tail end of GM's "revolution", complete w/ features and engines we haven't even thought about yet.

 

Car choices back then were just a fraction of what they are today.

Mustang shattered ALL sales records in 1964 and 1965. Today they sell a fraction of that.

The lesson? There's no comparison between then and now.

 

Do you think that sales dropped, beacuse people "knew" chevy was going to bring back the camaro. Unlike the Imapla SS (as stated in the other thread) when the last year came they sold alot more becuase at that time it wasnt comming back. I think the 98+ camaro might not have sold well is because people are waiting for the new model.

I could be wrong.

 

The reason I didn't buy a new Camaro in 2002 (I had a chance of getting a new Police Camaro for just over $22K) is becaus it wasn't different enough from my Camaro, and any other Camaro made over the previous 9 years, not because I was waiting for a new model.

As for the CAW contract, I think it's time to quit using them as a scapegoat. the assembly quality at that plant was very good towards the end, and on par with the rest of GM throughout the 90s.

You want to talk about dumb contracts? Look at the health coverage mess GM got themselves into after that strike about 5 years ago. It will take them until the end of the decade to get out of that mess. Until that happens, most of the profit they make will go towards health care coverage.

 

I can honestly say there is not one single Chevrolet product I would even consider buying...for the first time, well, ever...

The J body is ancient...and while I like the Sunfire (I wish I sold more of the damn things ) redesign, the new Cavvy is hideous front and rear...

The current Malibu is as bad as the Corsica was by '96...just plain dreadful. And the '04 doesn't have me all that excited either...no coupe, no sports version, just BLAH...

Impala and Monte SS with no V8...well, at least they FINALLY put a blower in them!! Only took them 7 years longer than Pontiac to put one in the GP...yeah, there's progress

Corvette? I'm 22, not 52. Me no afford

So yeah, with no F body, no decent looking Z24 Cavalier, not even a Beretta coupe (yeah yeah I know, gone for years...) or a decent looking Monte, I am left with? Well, going to Pontiac and buying a Grand Am GT. Wait, I already did that...

Is it 2008 yet? Hello, Camaro? Anyone home??....