Study Ethanol from Switchgrass: $.55-$.62/gallon
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From: Philaduhphia
Are these the same "smart" people on Gore's side?
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Actually the effect is the opposite. I live less than 10 miles from six refineries and we pay some of the highest gas prices in the state. Whereas my son lives miles from any refineries and they pay 30-40 cents less per gallon. Over a greater distance transportation costs can be spread out more.
Small,local, plants will satbilize the supply in a way oil never could, reducing costs at every step. The added benefits of local employment and reduced expense in waste disposal make ethanol a very attractive enterprise for local and state governments. It is a new, and positive economic paradigm with the only losers being big oil and foreign unfriendly governments.
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: NC
The difference is that the whole nation now depends on a reltively small number of oil refineries controled by a small number of huge companies. With ethanol, the plants are much smaller, would be controled by many different businesses (and other organizations). No expensive pipelines, or oil tankers, or drilling rigs, or searching for new deposits, or international trade issues, and best of all - no cartels.
Small,local, plants will satbilize the supply in a way oil never could, reducing costs at every step. The added benefits of local employment and reduced expense in waste disposal make ethanol a very attractive enterprise for local and state governments. It is a new, and positive economic paradigm with the only losers being big oil and foreign unfriendly governments.
Small,local, plants will satbilize the supply in a way oil never could, reducing costs at every step. The added benefits of local employment and reduced expense in waste disposal make ethanol a very attractive enterprise for local and state governments. It is a new, and positive economic paradigm with the only losers being big oil and foreign unfriendly governments.
(Yep, I'm being very negative and cynical)
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: oshawa,ontario,canada
The difference is that the whole nation now depends on a reltively small number of oil refineries controled by a small number of huge companies. With ethanol, the plants are much smaller, would be controled by many different businesses (and other organizations). No expensive pipelines, or oil tankers, or drilling rigs, or searching for new deposits, or international trade issues, and best of all - no cartels.
Small,local, plants will satbilize the supply in a way oil never could, reducing costs at every step. The added benefits of local employment and reduced expense in waste disposal make ethanol a very attractive enterprise for local and state governments. It is a new, and positive economic paradigm with the only losers being big oil and foreign unfriendly governments.
Small,local, plants will satbilize the supply in a way oil never could, reducing costs at every step. The added benefits of local employment and reduced expense in waste disposal make ethanol a very attractive enterprise for local and state governments. It is a new, and positive economic paradigm with the only losers being big oil and foreign unfriendly governments.
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That certainly wouldn't be the best outcome, but at least it would mean that the shift would happen. The cartels either have to dive into the market, or face the consequences. The decentralized nature of ethanol production means that there will be too many separate entities for the cartels to squash the overall shift to new fuels. The most effective thing they could do to slow this progress would be to dramatically drop the price of gasoline and diesel so we get lazy about the alternatives again.
But I think the writing is on the wall this time, and the oil companies will bleed us as much as possible until we have enough availability of alternative fuels to flip them the bird. They will greed themselves out of business eventually. See, I can be cynical too.
But I think the writing is on the wall this time, and the oil companies will bleed us as much as possible until we have enough availability of alternative fuels to flip them the bird. They will greed themselves out of business eventually. See, I can be cynical too.
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From: Okemos, MI
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From: Southern Indiana
Setting up a massive distribution structure for one additional fuel will be difficult enough in itself, much less doing it for 10 alternatives...
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Joined: Apr 2000
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From: New England
and one other thread in the lounge said that Ethanol was bad for the enviroment? Even worse than gas?
But the thing is we should be putting our resources into the E85 fuels for more control of our own wellfare..
Think OPEC cars how much we have going for ourselves?
Nope Chinas right on the horizon with a billion more people to buy new cars and power by gas..
But the thing is we should be putting our resources into the E85 fuels for more control of our own wellfare..
Think OPEC cars how much we have going for ourselves?
Nope Chinas right on the horizon with a billion more people to buy new cars and power by gas..
.........
............
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From: All around
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From: Westmont, IL
Trash-to-fuel is nearly worthless in the long run. Assume that you get efficiencies in the 80-90 gallon/ton range. Well, my wife and I throw out maybe a hundred pounds of trash each week - that's enough to get ~5 gallons of fuel. And as oil gets more expensive, we'll throw out even less stuff. Sure, we can mine the landfills and get a short-term surge of available fuel, but it's not sustainable.
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From: Michigan's left coast
As oil gets more expensive, you'll be throwing a lot less stuff in the landfill - and as it is, you already don't throw away enough stuff to run your car.
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Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 538
Yep everything is for sale in this country, we're such money ****** for the short term, with no regard for the long term effect.
States are now soliciting offers from foreign interest to buy out our road infrastructure. The states get one lump sum from the foreign investor, toll booths go up, and more money starts to bleed from this country.
This screams misappropriation of tax funds. All those millions of tax dollars on gas, going somewhere else instead of road infrastructure, now we're going to be "taxed" again at the toll booth. Essentially taxed twice
Our governments are some of the poorest examples making good financial decisions and staying out of debit and credit hardship.
States are now soliciting offers from foreign interest to buy out our road infrastructure. The states get one lump sum from the foreign investor, toll booths go up, and more money starts to bleed from this country.
This screams misappropriation of tax funds. All those millions of tax dollars on gas, going somewhere else instead of road infrastructure, now we're going to be "taxed" again at the toll booth. Essentially taxed twice
Our governments are some of the poorest examples making good financial decisions and staying out of debit and credit hardship.
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,881
Why not just go e100. Point is to reduce the fuel consumption as much as possible.
As for trucks running ethanol. I don't know. The run biodesiel, which is soybean based... at least those that are set up for it. however, if they get less fuel mileage with ethanol.. it would really be crappy, like talking 3mpg... they are only averaging 5.8-6.5mpg now.... I think the biggest reason that trucks run on deseil is simply the torque they can produce and the lifespan of the engines (when you can turn 120,000 to 240,000 miles a year on a single truck, that is something that they look for)
As for trucks running ethanol. I don't know. The run biodesiel, which is soybean based... at least those that are set up for it. however, if they get less fuel mileage with ethanol.. it would really be crappy, like talking 3mpg... they are only averaging 5.8-6.5mpg now.... I think the biggest reason that trucks run on deseil is simply the torque they can produce and the lifespan of the engines (when you can turn 120,000 to 240,000 miles a year on a single truck, that is something that they look for)