Jason E

As a Grand Am owner as well, I frequent www.grandamgt.com often. I noticed some of these guys whining and sniveling because their cars don't perform like true performance cars, no matter what they do to them. So I asked them, why is it they didn't buy an F body if they wanted a true performance car? Especially when they have a VERY similar price tag, and insurance that isn't as high as everyone seems to think (I for one have a GA with HIGHER insurance than my Z!!!). Did people just not check their insurance agents? I can see someone in the rust belt not wanting one due to snow, but all the guys from down south and out west? I just don't get it....

The responses thus far have been kinda funny. Rather than answer the question, so far I've been attacked for having enough $$ to own 2 cars But I think this is kinda important....WHY is it performance oriented buyers snubbed our cars? If they hadn't, wouldn't we still have some sort of F body? Opinions please...

Chuck!

My buddy has an 02 Grand Prix GTP and it went 14.0 with a cold air intake and smaller supercharger pulley. Beats the hell outa me and I have heads, cam, intake, and exhaust lol. Oh well there's always next year.

jrp4uc

Your Grand Am is also 5 years newer. That makes a big difference in rates.

There are a lot of assumptions placed on a car like a Camaro: it's not reliable enough, it eats too much gas, the insurance is unreasonable--true or not. I would think someone really interested in a car like this would at least take the time to explore the facts and call their insurance company for a quote. For most young buyers, the difference in insurance probably would have been a deterrent in a new F-body purchase, so I wouldn't consider this a contribution to its demise. However, I do believe image and reputation did play a part.

And yes, it is nice owning 2 cars.

Jason E

Excellent point....something I did mention in the post. However, the Z is over $300 less per year, for the same coverage. So even if a new one was $400-500 per year MORE than a '97, which I doubt it is, its still only 1-200 more than my GA. Cheap $$ I think for a true sports car.

As for MPG, I did mention my Z and my GA get the same mileage...no lie Gotta love that 6 speed!

MunchE

Bah, a GTP costs $28,000 new, too.

I ran a 14.2 stock stock stock in my 97 Z.

97z28/m6

grand am=grand prix

Chuck!

He told me he was $24k out the door. He's not one to lie either.

Jason E

After rebates? Probably was! Right now an '02 GP has a 4k rebate, an '03 a 3k one...

guionM

tls2000

As a Grand Am owner, I frequent those boards as well.

They do whine about not getting performance out of their cars. But there is a reason. Most of these people are out looking to beat the average Accord/Camry/Altima owner, and the Grand Am is lacking in the HP department when it comes to competing with these cars nowadays.

It's also expensive to modify those cars. It's like $7000 Canadian to get a supercharger for that car, which I view as excessive.

As a Camaro owner, you are priviledged enough to know what performance is. Most of these guys aren't looking for a sub-14 second car. They just want to beat an equivalent import.

Now, on a sidenote. That board is not meant to start arguments or flame wars. It's in the rules, even. If you don't have something nice to say to them, you shouldn't say it.

It also does no good for anyone for you to come on here and try to start a war between camaroz28.com members and gagt.com members. We're all car enthusiasts.

Regarding price tags:

Grand Am GT1 in Canada maxes out at $29,000.

Trans Am : $35,000
Camaro Z28: $31,000 - BASE, no options.

$2k to $6k is a huge difference when you pay it over 48 months.

Just my $.02

BlackRocketZ

They didnt get a Camaro because of other peoples opinions. When I bought my Z28 my boss just rolled his eyes and called it a kids car. He has a minivan.

redzed

A Grand Am GT coupe was a far better buy than a V6 Mustang, Camaro or Firebird with a slushbox. Take away the extra punch of an LS1, and there is very little justification for the inconvenience of an F-body. With its limited rear seating and poor ergonomics, the same goes for the base Mustang.

If a Grand Am buyer could shell out the extra lolly for a Z28 or Formula the value equation changed.

For the price, the Grand Am GT has decent kick, good brakes, and superior interior styling. Sure, there's precious little sound deadner, and the exhaust note is annoying at high rpms, but these cars are the best V6 coupes for the money. The worst thing I can say about these cars is that the paint quality is below GM's normally high standards, but equal to that of the Mustang.

The guys who are complaining should appreciate the Grand Am for what it is. If they wanted V8 performance, they should have bought an F-body while they had a chance.

BlackRocketZ

..but this is the way he wanted it, so he got it". As Luke lays in the dust shackled, but thinking of his next escape.

Jason E

You hit the nail on the head. The GA GT IS a very respectable car. Indeed, the exhaust note stock is a little coarse at high RPMs...I plan to add an SLP exhaust to mine to deepen the tone. I started the post as an attempt to learn why it is people would spend big $$ to mod one of these, only to turn around, be unhappy, and sell it when they didn't get it to perform the way they wanted it to. All I said was, if you wanted a road racer, there was another option...so I posed the question to all the whiners.

Know what happened? Not one whiner has stepped up, and there's 50 posts now. I've been dragged over the coals with people putting words in my mouth, never bothering to see the point of the thread, and in general just wasting time and space. I give the moderators credit over there for not locking it, for at times it has been ridiculous, and like I said, not ONE person has stuck to the damn topic yet.

As for tls2000, well, you can read my response to you over at the other site. I find it amusing you think I wanna start a war, but the only people I have found so far causing trouble are people like you who aren't even the target I was going after anyways. People who wanna fuel a fire that quite frankly, if you look at the damn topic, has no reason to be fueled. Its up to the moderators at gagt.com to figure out whether I have broken rules...not you.

I see no war on here...do you? I see people complimenting the GA GT, as have I. Whats your point? If you have an opinion about the topic, I'm all for hearing it...but don't slam me. I don't see the big deal, nor do many others over there. No offense man, but c'mon...gimme a break. What point would I be serving to start a war, as you put it? Please...

tls2000

I was maybe continuing the trouble that was started. But I did not start it.

I have given the reasons as to why I am unable to get a camaro or a Trans Am on the other thread. I am NOT happy with the performance of the Grand Am. It has a lot of get go, I'll give it that. But I also see other cars in it's class, or in a lower class, outperforming it. GM has been using the same engine in this car ever since they put the 2.8l v6 in it. It has had mild updates and has had it's displacement increased, but it is the same engine, only slightly modified to keep up. But it's still beaten on the road by the Altima, Camry, and Accord, which are what your average ricer drives nowadays (Altima excepted), which means that this car does not equal the others. And after throwing a lot of money ($7000) into these cars, you're lucky to increase your quarter mile times by 1.0sec. It's very expensive to modify an n-body.

The other big problem that a lot of the whiners had was with build quality. I've had my car in the shop for warranty work over 20 times. 10 of those times were related to the brakes!

I am not a whiner on GAGT.com, but I agree with some of the ones who have spent thousands of dollars on modifying their cars, only to be beat by a stock Altima.

I don't see a war here, I don't see a war there. This is good. Both communities are very mature in that respect.

Do remember that when you post something, perhaps let people know the tone of your sentences.

"Why didn't you buy a friggen F body????" can be viewed as inflamitory.

THIS was inflamatory. You say that you're asking in a non-condescending way after implying that people are stupid for not buying an f-body, for their purposes. So don't go and get all pissed off at me because I took offense to your statements, and called you out on them.