I agree with you that the Mini isnt considered Retro for most of the world because the old mini stayed in production (it kept its basic iconic design for its entire life). On the otherhand the Mini is considered a Retro car by many in the US mostly because there hasnt been a new Mini sold here since 1968 (Mini was only sold in the USA between 1960-1968) until the all-new 2002 model arrived.

The funny thing is that over the decades there were many attempts to ditch the oldschool Mini look for a more 'modern' style to keep up with the Japanese and other Euro brands. Every attempt to modernize the car failed (the Rover Metro below is a perfect example).



Below is a pic of a prototype of what was styling exercise of a new Mini until it was decided to go with a design with more heritage.

Ironically in the end it took a German company (BMW) to finance and assist in re-inventing all new (Modern underneath) Mini that kept its original design. The current 2002-2006 Mini's designed was actually finalized all the way back in 1997, but the on-again-off-again internal relationship between Rover and BMW lead to many delays which almost killed-off the new-Mini entirely. The design of the 2002 Mini was considered so successful that Ferrari hired its designer (Frank Stephenson) to head-up the design team of the Maserati division.

When the next-gen 07 Mini (not just a re-fresh) comes out next year it will basically keep its same look but has been slightly altered to meet the new Euro pedestrian safety standards, enlarged interior, new turbo engines and etc.

 

Yeah, okay if the mustang is girlie then I guess the Shelby is metrosexual at best.

 

Yeah, I though that statement a bit way off as well.

 

Maybe feminine was a stretch, but you can't deny that the Mustang has a softer image of the three.

 

Lol, musta been those playboy bunny mustangs.

I think its becasue the mustang only offers a wimpering 300hp/315 ft-lbs, compared to the 400hp both GM and DCX will most probably be offering in thier base V8 cars. So its regular V8 stang is seen as a kiddy car.

Funny though, how 300 hp now is seen as barely being able to cut it.

 

Ford can always come with a special edition Mustang to compete with the Challenger and Camaro.

Let's not forget that Ford is working on a Mach 1. Who knows, by the time the Challenger and Camaro come out, the Mustang GT might have 325 hp.

You can't compare todays Mustang to a 2007-2009 car.

 

I think the worst thing about all this is that a production ready Challenger is being compared to a clay mock up of a concept Camaro. Almost like the Challenger is getting the jump out of the hole. I didnt show the Camaro pics to most of my friends for this reason. I didnt want to explain about the pictures and it really wouldnt have stuck anyway. They'd still compare the two just as everybody here and on other forums have been.

 

300 horses is far from wimpering. It was alot of fun in my '97 Z28, and honestly I prefer the torquey, deep rumble, clatter free LT1 to the faster and not much else LS1.

Also, believe it or not there isn't another new car on the planet that offers more horsepower than Mustang GT at the same price.

Even the 303 horse Impala SS suggests at least $3,000 more than a Mustang GT.

 

Mustang Girly? Feminane? Not Powerful?

Ahem....'03 and '04 Terminators.....Girly ?

 

Those are the only recent mustangs even worth mentioning as ungirly.......... the rest were not even close to their gm counterparts

 

I dunno, back in the day when it was all 3rd gens, GNs, vettes, mustang GTs and LXs, there was a bit more parity. It wasn't till the dawn of the LT1s and there 275 hp engines that things got down right uneven. To bad Ford had a nice answer waiting in the wings with the 351 powerplant in 95 R model cobra or the Lightning, Heck they could have used the light arsed nature of the foxbody and just slapped some explorer heads (GT40 and GT40p heads) on the 302HO for a bit more parity, but I suppose they had other plans (If I had to guess, it was preparing the faithful for the all mighty 215hp 4.6 ), for that matter, its seems like Fords' bumbling on the matter was the inspiration for the movie "The Producers"

 

Well if GM had gone evolutionary in its design, this whole Challenger 'late to the party yet again' thing would be a non-issue, now wouldn't it!

Personally I think the challenger is way, way, way too RETRO. That car will not appeal to most people born after 1980. The Mustang had just enough modern touches on it to keep it from being proclamed a blatant copy. I can't say the same applies to the new Challenger.

Furthermore, Challenger doesn't have the name recognition, heritage, and following of Mustang. If people don't dig the style, the name sure as hell isn't going to save it (unlike Mustang). I'm willing to bet that its re-introduction will be shorter lived than its original 4 yr life-span. I can't see it selling more than 8K/year. The majority of those customers being MOPAR loyalist.

 

I'm not going to argue that the Challenger might now sell more then 10k per year, but if it can be built on the same line as the current LX cars then it won't matter, to a point, how little of them they build as the plant will be able to switch between the 4 cars as demand varies. Thus you don't have to worry about having excessive cars collecting dust.

From what I have told, it doesn't matter if the Challenger only sells 1k cars, if they can build it on the same line as the current LX cars it will be a huge success. I forget the term for it, it was explained over on the Allpar board.

 

99 and 01 Cobras along with the Mach I were pretty damn close.

 

Also GM has had since late 2001 (at least in the publics mind) to be working on a Camaro replacement. So it will look like GM took 7+ years and Dodge took 12-18 months to the public. Since GM has had so long, shouldn't the Camaro be damn near ready? I'd almost be expecting them to just be waiting for the Zeta/Sigma-lite plan to come online.

Yes and that is awesome, I hope the production car gets them. Reminds me of that seen in Dazed and Confused with the bowling ball and GTO