Yeah...but placing restaints on the company you are bailing out that make it not competitive is shooting yourself in the foot if you expect the loan to be repaid. People will buy what they want...the question is..will GM be allowed to make what they want. I mean...how many people go in Chevy dealerships and say..."Man, there is just not enough really small 40mpg cars here"

 

To some scrapping = crushing. The "environmentalists" want to prevent these cars from EVER getting back on the road, so they insist that the cars be crushed and melted down. They don't realize that this is an inefficient use of the materials since it takes energy to crush and melt the cars down. In the long run, it is more environmentally efficient to reuse as many parts as possible as many times as possible to get the most life out of it before it has to be melted down.

 

If they weren't getting a loan from the government I would agree. But just like a small business applying for a loan they need a business plan. In this case, since the funds are public...it is the government's duty to enforce the business plan to help ensure the public's funds aren't wasted.

 

Look at the power these smaller engines are putting out today!! 300HP from a 3.6L Camaro, that is more than any V8 Camaro from the mid 70's though mid 90's.

260HP from the 2.0L LNF, that is as much or more than Fords 2v 4.6L. V8's just aren't needed anymore to make 250-300HP

Mini is the only automaker whos sale were up in November. Whats going to happen when gas goes back up over $4 sometime in 2009 and again it is only foreign automaker that offer 40mpg cars. That will be the final nail in the coffin for the big 3. This price dip to $1.99 is a blessing for Detroit, it will buy them at least another year to unload sub 30mpg cars.

 

I don't care IF they made a 1000 hp. I have zero interest in ANY car without a V8. Nor do I have ANY interest, in anything foreign....This is all about putting the big 3 out of business.This is complete BS! I would never buy a ****ing POS mini!

 

I absolutely agree that GM should have to present a workable business plan, and the loan should be contingent on GM sticking to that plan for some preset number of years. If GM diverts from the plan, then the balance of the loan should be due immediately. And if things turn around within the outlines of the plan before the preset number of years are up, they should have no problem repaying it.

 

Mini is a niche brand..and fuel economy is not it's main selling point. While people do want fuel economy...most people who can afford what a new car runs today also are not going to compromise the size and features they expect for an extra 5-6 mpg. The ones who do care about fuel economy already have purchases geared towards that.

I also think we will not see another gas price spike for a while. You have to keep in mind, the last price spike was not caused by a shortage (no one was waiting for oil anywhere)...it was caused by influx of investors into oil markets investing with borrow money in commodities. Since the supply of oil is fairly static, when you have 10x the investors trying to buy oil futures, the price can go now where but up. Now that the credit markets have frozen and adjusted, there will be less investment money in these markets for the forseeable future. This is why OPEC cutting oil production does not matter.

 

Consider this... I hope to God within my lifetime that hydrogen/electric cars will replace the antiquated ICE. As long as it performs like a musclecar should, does it really matters how it is propelled down the road?

 

Well, ideally, I'd like it to sound good too.

 

To ME it matters, and I don't think the ICE is antequated. GM pioneered and perfected the V8 engine, everyone copies it. And yet they'll be strangled, while the other bastards will be able to produce whatever they want! It's BS! I hope to God that NEVER happens. IF it does......well I'll just keep it to myself! There is a reason why gas powered nitros are better too. The electric ones suck ***!! Whoever it was that came up with this "plan", to phase out V8's, should be thrown out on their *** (shot was a bit harsh)!! They should resign from GM immediately....and move to france with johnny deep!!

 

Agreed. Ironically artificial engine sound may be required to be standard on all electric vehicles some day. The blind community is already complaining that hybrids are too quiet in electric mode and are dangerous on city streets. Watch for legislation to follow once EVs become more common.

Can you imagine being able to dial in your engine sound and have your car sound like an Formula 1 racer one minute and a burbling big block hemi the next? Sound crazy? I recall at least one electric car manufacturer is already planning for this. (Can't remember exactly which one off the top of my head.) Don't worry, its electronically tied to the throttle so it "revs-up" at the appropriate times.

 

Don't be so sure. Next step will be, the sound of your phony engine will be a noise violation! Anyway why would you want to hear the phony sounds of something that to you is antiquated? What for? Me, I'd rather just have the real thing!! I never thaught it would happen, but this country WILL fall....Just a matter of time now!! I predict my interest in cars will have to take a back seat, to my interest in weaponry!!

 

You're missing the point.

Tell me, do you get as upset when you see a GEICO commerical?

 

Well then I guess they better start working on smaller V8's. You are used to a world where if you wanted 250-350HP it had to come from a V8. Today V8's are for the 350HP+ market and that market is much smaller than the 250HP-350HP market which can be filled by smaller more fuel efficient Turbo I4's and V6's. Once all vehicle engines have Direct injection and HCCI, V8s will only be for the 400HP+ crowd.

Just wait until that credit market opens back up again. Weakening dollar and a production drop predicted for later in 2009 will send prices back to the moon.

The only thing keeping ICE alive is the lack of good batteries.

 

Would not bet on it..with the non oil friendly incoming administration.