That would seem natural considering the Ion RL and Cobalt SS Ecotecs are supercharged.

 

The Saturn Sky "product specialist" at Chicago said Turbo four or even a V6. ..............but not till '08....damnit!

 

So what? GM still sells the supercharger for the ECOTEC over the counter. Heck you can even have it dealer installed.

 

They also make a 210Hp Turbo version of that same 2.0L engine and sell it in the Saab 9-3.

 

Oh, it just frustrates the hell out of me to see such a timid approach to car building....if you're going to build something, don't make the initial buyers want to sell their suddenly depreciated cars to get the better model.

I understand keeping sales moving with new models, but, damn...make a car that looks like this and not give us the performance model for two more years is stupid.

The Fiero all over again....get it right just in time to kill it because of poor sales.

 

Probably is a stripper considering the better equipped sky will retail for 25k, 5,000 dollars more than the solstice. That leads me to think the Solstice is a real stripper.

Z28x, i love the turbo 2.0L ecotec. The little thing is a tq monster. It makes 220lb-ft at just around 2,200rpms. The Cobalt SS's supercharged 2.0L ecotec makes 200lb-ft at 4,400rpms. 20 less lb-ft of tq at basically double the rpm . From a tq production point of view, the turbo is clearly better. I still wish they'd have used the already Saab developed turbo ecotec instead of creating a supercharged version for the SS. I hope any future Solstice or Sky F/I varient will go with the turbo instead.

 

Nope, it's the original 1997 BMW Z3 all over again. Doesn't anyone remember all those cute little roadsters, many of which were painted blue like the one in the James Bond movie Goldeneye? You know, the ones that were sold in the Neiman Marcus catalog. They were all 1.9 liter 4-bangers.

It wasn't too long before BMW introduced 6-cylinder models, then they dropped the 4-bangers in the American market. When the BMW Z4 showed up, they didn't even offer a 4-cylinder model in Europe! Yes, that's right, even fuel-economy crazed Europeans who have to pay $6.00/gallon didn't want 4-cylinder BMW roadsters! Straight six engines, only.


GM isn't the type of company to learn from BMWs' mistakes - or even their own.

 

Riiiiiiight. What was the power rating of that 1.9L again? What was the sticker price on the Z3? Did BMW discontinue the Z3, or did they redesign it and carry it on as the Z4?

The 2.4L VVT Ecotec isn't far behind the base 2.5L in the Z4 in output. And show me where you can buy a Z4 (or a Z3 when it was new) for anything close to 20 grand.

Didn't think so.

Of course, with the Solstice, for your 20 grand you have to put up with styling that isn't all goofy looking like the Z4. Wait...

Oh, and for those wondering about the higher output engine for the Solstice: I would NOT assume it will be the same as the engine in the Cobalt SS, or in the Saab 9-3.

 

1. BMW's 1.9 liter was rated at 140hp in Europe - remember, this 9 years ago!

2. The BMW was in the mid-to-high $20K range. It seemed cheap for a BMW at the time because we were coming out of an era when the Deutch Mark was about a strong as today's Euro.

3. Compared to the 1st generation Miata (which was nowhere near the original $14K MSRP by the mid-90s) the Z3 was a better built, more comfortable, more spacious roaster for a little-bit-more money.

1. BMW's 2.5 liter inline-6 will soon be putting out 210-215 horsepower.

2. Prediction: The Solstice's $19,995 MSRP will be padded by a mid-model-year price increase soon after the introduction. The sub-$20 price is just pre-model launch hype.

3. The Solstice shares its engine with the Cobalt, its transmission with the Colorado/Canyon pick-ups and I'm still not sure if this thing has a trunk, enough space for normal sized humans, or a foolproof top.

 

OK, so it was over 30 hp behind, and it cost ~$10 grand more 9 years ago. Thanks for making my point. Oh, and I think it was only 138 hp here.Quite a bit more money, actually. Both are still around and selling fine (for quite a bit more than 20 grand, today). How exactly does this make the Solstice a bad idea at 20 grand?

OK, and at what base price? OK...maybe... and so?The Z4 shares its engine and transmissions with other cars too. Big deal. The trunk is indeed small (as is the one in my Miata), and I haven't operated the top yet. But the interior is certainly roomier than my Miata's (also roomier than a 2nd gen Miata's). I thought the transmission shifted quite nicely, and the engine makes good power. I can't speak about engine exhaust sound (the cars I've driven have been pretty early development/integration cars, and it's been quite a while at that). The ride/handling and braking are great. Remember, this is a sporty two seat roadster, not exactly the most practical daily driver (I know from experience with my two seater).

 

Z4 2.5L = 184HP/174tq
Z4 3.0L = 225HP/214tq
Z3 1.9L = 138hp/133tq

also the original base MSRP of the Z3 in 1996 was $28,750...remember that is in 1996 dollors so in todays money it would be 22% higher (assuming 2% inflation) or close to $36K for a 138hp sports car.

Solstice looks like a pretty good deal to me

 

Somehow you keep missing the point that BMW no longer makes 4-cylinder roadsters?


1. I wouldn't compare BMW components to the ones that come from the Cobalt and the Colorado/Canyon.

2. It's interesting to know you own a 1st generation Miata. I don't fit into any Miata (first or second generation) but I've always been able to get comfy in a BMW Z3 or Z4.

3. The Solstice has a very unconventional top mechanism. This is a make-or-break feature in a roadster.

 

Not missing it. Are you missing the point that BMW is playing in a different pricing category? Even the Miata costs more, and it uses 4 cylinders. Why is this hard? A Z4 costs well over 50% more (to well over 100% more, for the loaded up 3.0 versions) than a Solstice. Yes?Would it be OK if it was the GM-sourced 5 speed auto that BMW used to great effect for years and years? Or, is it ok that the 5 speed in the Colorado is supplied by Aisin, who supplies Toyota with lots of goodies? Have you driven a manual Colorado? (I have, many many times...). The T56 out of our rude, crude F-cars still sees duty quite successfully in the Viper and Corvette...Well, at 6'1+, I don't quite fit "comfortably" in the Miata. But in the spring/summer/fall, it has infinite headroom. The issue of knee/legroom between the door and steering wheel is a little more annoying, though it isn't bad if I keep my left foot on the dead pedal. With wide shoes on, though, that is tough to do, because my shoe is then partially behind the clutch pedal. *shrug*Yes, it is a little different. Like I said, I haven't operated it yet myself, so I can't comment from experience. But I don't think it will hold the car back from selling in the volumes they are after.

 

Actually, the new Miata being introduced at Geneva will probably also have a sub-$20K MSRP.

1. A BMW is worth more than a Pontiac.

2. BMW's use of GM's 5-speed slushbox is coming to an end.

3. You're awful defensive about using pick-up truck parts in a roadster.

Like I said....


Don't underestimate issues like top design and interior space in a roadster.

 

You're very close- according to an inflation calculator $28,750 in 1996 is equal to $33,216.02 in 2003.

GM could have easily badged the Saturn Sky as a Caddy instead and would have no problem selling the exact same car for $35,000.