After having my Grand Prix for 500 miles (200 miles ago, managing to stuff the LF into a guardrail avoiding a Civic trying to mate with my RF, to the tune of $1,500 in damage ), I wonder, exactly why is the 3800 taking a hike?

Is it because of the 90 degree design? I understand it is harder to fit this engine in a FWD car, versus the 60 degree. I love this engine. I never gave 3800s enough credit. This sucker is responsive, smooth, economical...everything a great V6 should be. I've only had it matted once, but all the way to 5,900 RPMs, she was impressive. A little coarse on the high end, if you will...but overall very good.

I don't care that this engine has been around since the ice age. It works. Period. I'm sure GM could massage it well past its "Series III" designation it has now. So why are they killing it? Size?

 

its about time for this engine to go (10 years ago). yes its bulletproof, yes its economical, but it lacks much in the refinement and performance categories.

besides, isn't it coming right back as a 3.9L?

 

No, the 3900 is an extension of the 3100/3400/3500 60 degree engines...

Have you really listened to your 3800? Is it really loud? If it is, there's probably something wrong with it! Mine is very smooth, and there is no performance lacking with it. 0-60 on a regular Grand Prix GT is around 7.5 seconds...definitely on par with its target category. Give it another 20-30hp, and its all set for "Series IV" duty. Not as fast as an Accord V6? Thats what a GTP is for, at 6.6 seconds

The car needs a stick, but theres nothing wrong with the engine. I know the car mags say it isn't "refined," but the engine is not loud, at all. Its really rather smooth, which is why I'm baffled. It only gets a little coarse over 5k...hardly where the target market drives.

 

I agree with you Jason. Sure, its older than the newer v6's and the magazines find anything they can to bash it (since they cant slam its reliability) but it is truly a great motor. It's bulletproof, reliable, and has pretty decent power.

 

Glad to see someone agrees You have the car I'd have for a daily driver if I lived in a no-snow climate! To me, its tough to beat a V6 Camaro as a driver. The 3800/4L60E combo is just about bulletproof, plastic cars don't rust, and F bods themselves just seem to last...

There's an '01 3800 with 17k on the lot I bought this one from (I bought it myself at the auction almost 7 months ago...since I left, no one there F bods anymore ), but visions of slipping around in the snow when I know a FWD GP makes more sense did it in...

I can see someone calling a 3800 archaic, but coarse and/or not powerful??

 

From what it looks like the 3800 will be replaced not because it isn't a good motor but because better motors like the HV 3.9L 60° V6

The 3.9L will probably cost close to the same to build but put out 245HP (+/-) and can be fitted with DoD and 3 valve heads.

 

I have been satisfied with the 3800 in both our Monte SS's... the 01 has 74000 on it, the 02 has 15000 on it.... not a problem ever...


But, I assume it is time to move on... it's been around for a while now. If the new motor is better, I'm all for it.

 

Like anything else you can buy, engines come and go. The 351/302 Fords were great engines, but they came to an end.

The 3.8's replacement is the 3.9L, and from what i've heard, it looks to be a better engine so i guess it's for the best. Larger and more powerful; can't complain about that.

 

sorry to get off topic but...
what does "hv" stand for in hv 3.9 60* v6?
i've always seen it but didnt know what it meant

 

HV = "High Value" which it the new pushrod 60° V6 engines (3.5L, 3.9L)

HF = "High Feature" the new DOHC V6 engines, the only one out now is the 3.6L in the CTS, SRX, and Rendevous Ultra.

 

so THAT'S what's happening.... is it more or less a new block or is it a monsterously stroked 2.8/3.1/3.4?? if so, its surprising that block has the capacity for such displacement.

is there more info on these floating around somewhere?

 

from my experience with my own ride and a couple of other 3800 SII's that i knew they are really thrashy loud engines. when this thing is milling anywhere from 3k - 6k RPM, you pretty much wonder if its going to explode if you're staring right at it with the hood open. it never does, but it SOUNDS like it might. its REALLY thrashy and coarse. and anyway 90* isn't exactly the best configuration for a V6 if you're after a smooth and quiet engine. i mean if you're ignoring the newer engines on the market for the past 10 years, then yeah, you can consider the 3800 smooth. but if you look at some of the newer engines they're butter compared to the 3800.

as far as performance, 200hp is, OK. but again its not smooth. the engine pulls strong from 3k - 4.5k and then pretty much falls right on its face. its not a particular torque monster either so it doesn't have a huge bottom end either. so you're kind of left with a narrow "sweet spot" in the RPM range. the VQ35 in a G35 sedan i've been in just pulls from almost anywhere with seemingly no end of torque in sight. and it feels smooth as silk (though there are smoother sounding engines).

perhaps they could have just added some HP to the 3800. but maybe it wasn't economical to try to squeeze an extra 20-30hp out of it...

 

How many miles are on these examples you've rode in? Not that it matters much because of all the 3800's I've driven and all the ones my customer's have purchased from me, this has never been a problem or concern. I would have to imagine that you rode in a couple bad eggs (a rarity in it's self for a 3800) because these are certainly not typical stereotypes of this engine, as JasonE mentioned.
I, personally, am a huge fan of the 3800 and have said the same thing as JasonE for years, why not just modernize the 3800 with a little more power and smoothness. Saddly, this likely won't happen. But for all those saying that the 3.9 will be a better motor than the 3800, keep in mind that the 3800 has been around since the sixties, tuned to perfection, and has proven its self, where as the 3.9 has yet to do so. Statisticly, the 3.9 will create more power, space, etc. But time will tell which is the better motor. My money's on the 3800.

 

I can only speak for my own car. But my 3400 is hardcore. Never had a problem with it. With 124,000 hard miles on it still rev smooth, still idols fine and never has a problem starting. It may kick out a little smoke starting. But that’s the worst thing. I say give the 3900 a chance.

 

Put me into the column of 3.8 fans. The one in my sister's '96 Camaro has surprising performance, and has turned out dead on reliable. At 76,000 miles, it still runs smooth & troublefree & is a much better engine than the 3.8 Ford version in her former Mustang by far.

My own experience with the 3.8 dates back to the early 80s when I picked up a used 4 speed manual Monza hatchback added an Edelbrock manifold, a Holley 4 barrel carb, headers, and an ill-fitting siamese dual exhaust with the then new "oval mouth" catalytic converter from the Monte Carlo SS. With just those mods alone it outran Z28s of the day.

These are very good, responsive, and still relavent engines. I'd think GM would save quite a bit of money increasing the displacement & designing a new set of heads for this engine instead of creating a whole new one that in essence is simply another pushrod V6.