F-bodies and GTOs weigh more or less the same.. a full weight f-body (transam) is in the 3600+ lbs (to say a number)... They may be a bit higher than that too...

fbodies do not weigh 3300, c5 do.

 

Showing up at the track already? What did they do, drive it there directly off the boat without break-in?

GTO weighs just under 300 pounds more than a fully loaded F-body (the GTO comes fully loaded).

That 300 pounds is offset with numous changes in the engine, including:
— Increasing fresh airflow through the air cleaner with a larger 100mm diameter inlet pipe
— Reducing exhaust backpressure to a very low static pressure of (40 kPa) with a slightly larger diameter size dual pipe system
— An all-new true dual exhaust system. It includes dual catalytic converters, one on each exhaust bank; two small resonators, one between each catalytic converter and the mufflers; and pipes-only running from each muffler all the way to the dual chrome exhaust tips which are packaged next to each other at the rear fascia. (motor trend magazine & GM press release)

Remember, F-body LS1s have single exhausts and a more restrictive route.

Keeping in mind that LS1 Camaros off the showroom ran anywhere from low 14s to upper 13s without mods, the GTO manages 1/4 mile times:
14 @ 105: http://www.auto-report.net/index.html?04gto.html
"under 14 seconds" (GM Media): http://media.gmcanada.com:8221/divis...o/pontiac/gto/

So, the times you mentioned are close to the money. However, that still means that GTO is roughly as quick (without mods) as LS1 Z28s are (also without mods). You can mod Z28s to be quicker, but you can also do the same to the GTO, so it's still a wash.

Then there's this from Jim Wagners (co-creator of the original GTO):
http://www.discountautoparts.net/how...200307014G.htm

Might wanna downgrade that 98% to perhaps 50%.

 

I'm with Snorman on this.

Having driven a new GTO and owning an '02 SS I can say without a doubt that my Camaro is a good half second faster than the GTO. I believe dyno numbers I've seen prove this. A few stock GTO's with low miles have put down between 300-310rwhp and around 320-330rwtq.

Base numbers on my SS were 317/329 AND YES it's about 300lbs less than the GTO. I've seen only 1 GTO run at the track and it ran a 14.1 @ 103mph. It probably just came from the showroom so I'll wait until it gets more miles on it before I make a comment. I will say though, that the car was an A4. I'd like to see a good driver drive an GTO M6 with some miles on it. THEN we'll see what it's capable of....but I don't see them being faster than the LS1 f-body. We'll probably be seeing mid 13 second GTO's with the manaul out of the box before too long.

-Rich

 

You sound like a brochure.
And this is nice and all...but it means nothing if it doesn't show up at the track or on the dyno, and it doesn't. So far, stock 6m cars are dyno'ing ~300rwhp and A4's are in the 290rwhp range. The 300lb. penalty is not offset because GTO's aren't making any more rwhp than LS1 F-bodies were.
The first link you posted doesn't contain any actual test data. Rather, it uses words like "expected" and "approximately". There haven't been any published tests in which the GTO went 105mph. Motor Trend went 104.6mph in one...that's the fastest trap speed one has put up, and it was a 6-speed. Other tests have put the 6M's in the 101-103mph range. If it went "14 @ 105", I'd be disappointed, because something would be wrong. A good rule of thumb is a 100mph car will run a 14.0 on a 2.0 short time. Running a 14.0 on 105mph indicates either poor driving or a poor launching car.
The second link also gives no concrete test data. BTW...the weight on the comparison on the first link was wrong, it's 3,761/3,774 for the 6M/A4.
I can link to several threads on newagegto.com, ls1gto.com or ls1.com in which owners have run their cars at the track, all with similiar times to what have been published. Not one is anywhere near 108mph.
No way. Stock LS1 F-bodies still tested 3-4mph/3-4 tenths faster than GTO's have, and we've all seen at least a few running low-13's bone stock.
Hey...good for Jim. But you're not going to get a 3,800lb. car (without driver) to go 108mph on 300rwhp. Any calculator you use (using hp = weight * (speed / 234)3) will come up with ~380rwhp needed to move a 3,950lb. car (with driver) to 108mph.

Nope. I'm stickin' to it.

Again...the GTO is a nice car. But it's not as fast as some thought it would be. GTO drivers are going to have their hands full with '05 Mustang GT's which are now rumored to be in the 325hp range (according to some very preliminary tests) and weighing in at ~3,450. Time will tell.
S.

 

Welp, I'm here to tell ya, my SS stock would have had no problems with a stock GTO.

Lighter, bigger tires, same power, live axle.

Game over.

 

Exactly my point.
S.

 

Im gonna stick my neck out and say that GTO probably is making more power than a late Fbody, due to the technical differences guionM mentioned...However, the extra oompf is getting sucked up by the IRS.

I still think that the GTO is well and truely back.

Now if GM can just do the same with Camaro...

 

Where on earth did you fall in from?

Snorman is correct on all the OBJECTIVE data presented. Opinions on things like the interior will vary from person to person.

BTW..."Ford" wasn't mentioned in any of his posts in this thread prior to you bringing it up. Nice try though.

 

Let me consider this....
























Sorry Charlie, you don't have any say-so in that particular issue.....unless you run this Forum?

Didn't think so.

I've seen his posts regarding the GTO on this Forum and LS1.com. So what? Your point? Does it bother you that someone does not like the GTO as much as you do?

Bummer.

In which way is it better? Subjective or objective data? Do you know the difference? If his opinons are different than yours, does that then make his wrong simply because his opinion is different than yours?

Do I need to say that slower?

Oh, ok. And could you point me to some examples of thsoe "surprised experiences with the general public", please? Links would be nice. And remember - they can't be obviously biased towards Ford or GM.

Good luck - you're going to need it.

And BTW...there are people that don't care for the car - for whatever reason. They are no more right or wrong than you. Nor are they any more or less biased than you.

Believe otherwise if you wish. Continue this discussion if you wish. It matters not to me.

:joy:

 

I did make this post and he can have his opinion, right ro wrong. You take it as if people are insulting you if they don't say that the GTO is the greatest thing ever. There are lots of good things about it and some not so good things.....just like every other car out there last time I checked.

I think this years car will be slower than LS1 Camaros, but not by much. They also have a different cam that improves TQ but you gotta consider everything.

 

There's also negative things said about the car in that post along with the positive. Then you gotta factor in that they are ricers over there.

 

Wow. BTW, I could find you a bunch of Mustang guys that like em (including myself), but again, it doesn't even sort of make the point I was trying to make (perhaps it went over your head?).

 

I'd say that an auto GTO would be a nice match up to a Mach 1

No Problemo

 

I think the boot/trunk space is the biggest let downs on the US version of the Monaro.

When I look at the size of the boot in my Commodore, the GTO boot just doesn't stack up to the Aus spec product.

 

All opinion:

It's a nice, relatively large, pretty darn quick, touring GT.

Not the fastest thing on 4 wheels, a decent match-up for an M3, relatively comfy, all in all a good effort.