Right. Only difference is that the media doesn't love to hate any of those brands! GM on the other hand, they do. GM SUV's probably get better MPG than most of those too. doesn't matter they've been deemed EVIL by the all knowing media idiots! The media has projected this hate onto the people, it's frustrating as hell, trying to deal with these people everyday! Again it's BS, a big fat steaming pile of it!!!

 

I've been observing this for a long time, it's nothing new. Everytime GM is in the news this is what they do. It has been my opinion that this IS directly driving public opinion! After all the sheeple are controlled by the media, wether they know it or NOT! I agree, It's NOT a favorable situation at all, for anyone! Which is why I am so relentless when it's comes to the media dogs....I despise them even more than politicians, who rate a close second!

 

CITI GROUPE = COMPLETE BULL****

The auto ind. Needs the bail out a whole hell of alot more then another credit card company.... You can have a credit score of below 500 be in debt and still get a CREDIT CARD. I know a few years ago it i DID but now im back in the upper 680's I hit a very hard time in my life.... If the auto makers go under MILLIONS APON MILLIONS OF JOBS WILL BE LOST.....

 

Do people not understand that just because a company goes bankrupt it doesn't mean they cease to exist? If that was the case there wouldn't be any airlines left to fly.

Also if you think Citi is only a credit card company then that is a very bad assumption and probably why you have that opinion in the first place. Also CitiCards is the cash cow of Citi and posted it's first loss since it was conceived this past quarter. This bailout had nothing to do with CitiCard.

 

We understand this just fine. (Or at least a lot of us do.) The problem here is that the Detroit auto makers have to jump through hoops and over hurdles, begging and pleading for $25B between all three of them, but Citi Group can just make a phone call and get it without a media circus or congressional grilling. Why aren't you crying that Citi should just go bankrupt, or that AIG should just go bankrupt. After all, that doesn't mean they'll go out of business, right?

 

Financial industry already jumped through all the hoops , haven't you been watching the news the past year. Automakers are on the front burning but the financial industry was pasted all over the news the past 8 months at least, hell it dominated the election.

Citi won't go bankrupt and was never in danger of going bankrupt. If anything Citi is over capitalized right now, the drop in the bucket to Citi was merely for consumer confidence after the FDIC let Wells take Wachovia away from us, more writeoffs coming this quarter and securitization issues. Besides you already saw what happened when a couple small banks went under, what do you think would happen to consumer confidence if any of the top 5 go under?

 

Where the f*ck is my bailout? Lousy good-for-nothing government. Hell, I'll settle for 1 million. That's it... pocket change, WTF?

 

That actually probably would change things. Then people would look at GM as a new age fun-loving company instead of the evil, planet-killing, crappy car making, stupid decision making company they are perceived as now.

 

I hate seeing this "point" thrown around as it has no validity. An airplane ticket is $250 and other airlines are required to honor your ticket if your airline goes out of business. There is virtually no risk to buying an airline ticket from a bankrupt airline.

How many people would spend $20,000+ on a car and not be sure that the company would be around to provide a warranty and replacement parts? What's a used Daewoo go for these days?

But I do love how this bailout works:

1) Banks Cause Credit Problem due to greed and bad management
2) Auto sales tank because of credit problem
3) Big 3, whose sales were slowing, but OK before the crisis have their ENTIRE issue blamed on "quality" and "product" and "bad management"
4) Banks bailed out immediately because of importance to economy (even though banks are basically a commodity and anyone can start a bank)
5) Automakers not bailed out because large scale manufacturing is not important for the economy (and you cannot easily start a car company)

 

so you'd say that GM doesn't make stupid decisions?

 

Fixed that for you.

 

One would assume that the government indeed is interested in selling stock and not in socialism.

The banks have had this confidence since the beginning of the 20th century. Why do you think they ended up where we are today? If they were not confident of bailout, these loans (along with loans to 3rd world countries which they knew would fail) had guarantees written on them by congress that should the financial institution(s) fail, they will be bailed out. FDIC is just a small part and is rather insignificant. The real power is in government bailout, which is nothing new come this time. Bailouts have been happening regularly, just not to this extent.

As long as nothing changes with banking rules, nothing will get fixed. For as long as congress guarantees a bailout, history is bound to be repeated. That will require for the vast majority of public to be educated, which is a surmountable (perhaps even hopeless) task.

 

Ch. 11 will NOT work for the auto industry. Some of you have got to get that through your thick skulls.
When you buy an airline ticket, you have a VERY short relationship with that company. You buy the ticket, get on the plane, get off the plane, and you're done. That's the extent of the relationship.

When you buy a vehicle, you do so with the expectation that the manufacturer will be there in the long run to provide a warranty, service, and parts. If they are not there anymore, who will provide those things?

Studies have shown that people just won't buy a vehicle from a bankrupt company. There is a risk there that they are just not willing to take. Especially when you're looking at a $25K, $30K, $35K average price.

The other part of the equation is debtor-in-possesion financing. The Big 3 will never get that (unless the government gives it to them, which is what some here are complaining about in the first place). So that means Ch. 11 quickly devolves into Ch. 7 liquidation. Now the Big 3 are gone. Their jobs are gone. The suppliers are gone. The dealers are gone. ALL of those jobs are gone. As many as 3 million jobs.
The government would have to pick up health care, pensions, unemployment, etc for all these people. How much is that going to cost?
Then there is the lost tax revenue. How much will that be?
What about the loss of spending in this country? Let's face it, our economy is based on consumerism. You take 3 million people out of the "spending system", what will that do to our economy?

This country CANNOT afford that. It would be much cheaper and more prudent to give them a SLIVER of the $700B bailout money that was ALREADY spent. Remember, it's not another $25B. It's just a small part of the original.

 

They actually don't have everyone's $$$. Basically, they loan all the money out, keeping only a fraction as reserves. When entities default on repaying the bank (and individual borrowers don't have as big of an effect on this crisis as we're led to believe - it's the unsound investments made by the banks that basically disappear), the bank cannot pay out everyone it owes. If the bank should have $100,000 to pay off all its account holders, it only has about $10 in the vault. The first two persons who want to take out more than $10 can theoretically shut down the bank.

 

Seriously, the airline service in the US is ****. I flew many times in the US. All the "big" airlines' service was unbelievable for a modern prosperous western country. Cancellation of flights is standard procedure. Overselling seats is standard procedure. You have to show up 2 hours before the flight, or else your seat is given away to someone else, even though you are a valid ticketholder and already paid for that seat.

The only airline which I absolutely loved was Jet Blue. When I was late to JFK and checked in 15 minutes before the flight was to leave, guess what? I still had my seat. I have not had my flight canceled with them.

What's my take on it? Big airlines in the US just suck. Just as Air Canada here sucks - always complains about lack of money, always has service that is not as good as that of smaller airlines, and always begs the gov't for help. And its prices are very high compared to the competition.