...okay the Vette is by far the best bang for the buck and they cant make enough of them...and they are making hand over fist $$$ on them I think..right..
is it time to move it more upscale to like 60K? since alot of things are now in the 30-40 range for mid level performance..making the GTO or posible new Camaro not possible for more HP and better competition for the maker to make competing products since the high water mark for GM performance is vette....
I mean the Camaro SS it the end was a $35K car....for a few more beans you had a Vette..or just about the same..
basically they were compared..no lying to that fact..a vette with a back seat..baby vette..vettes little cousin..stuff like that..

base it on the new Monte platform or something..make it base V6 worth around 19K..good allaround performance..and the top dog..lets say SS..for the 35K it was..and then you got your RS V6 perofrmer or optional LS1 and stripper road racerZ28 (1le racer replacement)

you market it right you dont need to advertise evey model..people will come in and say..I want that..pointing at say a RS with LS1 in it..and or I want that..pointing to a hugger orange SS..pictures tell a thousand words and all you need is pictures..
Image is everything..if you diferentiate it from Vette..you will have Camaro back in the lineup..as its own car..from what people want it to be to what we want it to be...Its not a vette and we got to make sure they dont think it is either..

 

Corvette will go up over 60k sometime during the C6 run. That's just inflation. Camaro just has to stay competitive model-for-model with Mustang to be priced right. What those prices will be at 2005 and beyond is anyone's guess.

 

The sad reality is that the C6 Corvette will be moving up in price. However, the idea of moving the Corvette up the range just to make room for a "Camaro" is just plain stupid. I can put up the fit-and-finish of the current 'Vette because it's an unbeatable deal. Overall, I doubt that GM has the ability to turn out a car with the perceived quality to justify a $60k+ price.

If the 'Vette moves into that range, I sure as #@*! wouldn't be satisfied with a cheap plastic dashboard and poor quality leather seats. Expensive cars have nicely sewn hides on just about every interior surface. By the same token, they could keep their pushrods, because I'd want multi-valve sophistication for that money. More than anything else, they'd have to set up a separate dealer network, because I wouldn't buy a $60k car at my local Chevy dealer.

People have also used the example of the Viper as a justification for moving the Corvette upmarket, but that's just as stupid. The Viper is the next best thing to a kit-car in engineering terms. To be blunt, I wouldn't own one.

The current Corvette range has been successful because it offers a nearly ideal compromise between performance and value. I might even have considered a 'Vette if the Camaro had died back in 1999. If Chevrolet ditches the "value" part of the equation, I'd lose any remaining respect for GM. The Corvette is the last non-truck offering of the Chevrolet division that isn't a POS. Needless to say, I'd start looking much harder at BMWs.

 

So Caps, I guess I can put you down with the "make Corvette more expensive" crowd?

Why toy with something that ain't broke? Corvette's magic is that it can run with just about anything in the world, but at a price that's attainable to anyone willing to work save for it by age 40.

Jacking the price up to $60K (I'm guessing you mean in today's dollars) is a bad idea that goes against Team Corvette's motto: "Cheaper, Better, Faster" (from the book: All Corvette's Are Red). Besides, an expensive Corvette was already tried (the ZR-1) which failed terribly, and couldn't be given away in the end.

GTOs are going for $32-35K, SSs were $35K in the end (as you pointed out) and Vettes start at $48K. I certainly wouldn't call $15,000 just "a few more beans"!

 

No

 

guionM

I mean move the C6 more to a more fit and finish quality car..its got the ***** now refine it to make it like a truer exotic car..I mean since what 97 now the interior has been the same cheesy plastic you have in the Camaro and firebird..they couldnt work on something better over the years??? even something a little better? dont get me wrong the Vette is a nice peice of work..and a bargain..I would even say at 60K its a bargain..for what it can do..but what Im figuring..just looking around what you could buy a 2002 Vette and a 2002 SS it wasnt much far apart around here..the vette went for 42K and the SS was 36K..and that was just one example..I know ..but it was like that across the board..so yes your 15K could be right..but the price diffrence between them really got small in some places..and I bet the markup on 2002 Camaros was dealer fault that made the vette more attractive..
Im sure the new C6 vette will cost more to the 60K side now..with a Z06 option..yes..but Im just saying the high water mark for GM performance is Vette...and that gap has been shortened for many of the players in the feild..alot of products out and comming out almost meet the performance of the Vette but there refinement exceeds it...which sells cars too..I mean yes the Vette has to be a "blue collar" exotic..but that puts a strangle hold on the performance car for the masses. who then loo at these lesser performing better built cars...I mean you get back to the place where we were in 2002..the F-body became increasingly close to the vette in performace and fit and finish..to the point where the average joe saw it as a vette with a back seat...
The vette has to go to the group its intended to fight in..Viper Ford GT and Porshe with as little $$$ as possible..to make it the bang for the buck car it is. Thats still possible..
and make way for a hi HP car to enter into the area it ocupies now..to take on the Nissan 350Z's, Mitsu Evolutions, and such, these two cars are a good example..the Nissan not as fast but I would bargain at 27K a better built car in some respects for the price..and the Mitsu Evolution..a very fast low 5 second car for 35K thats not as refined but hey its almost there in speed..and then you got the Mustang Cobra and the Lightning..that fit into the equation somewhere...
In my opinion I feel if Vette stays where it is...it is where the 4th gen left off in all respects..fit finish and performance..and that is the only performance car GM will offer its masses...
If thats the choice..then like I have said before...GM has lost alot of sales to Ford when the new Mustang comes out...
I really think that GM didnt know the Mustang would generate so much popularity..as it has..and GM has to do something quick.
GTO is a hit but not the show stopper it was expected to be.
If I had the $$$ now in 2004 I would go look for a 2005 Mustang..that met what I was looking for in something that is almost as fast as a vette has the same type of value interior as a vette and has performance style and image..
something that GM IS NOT offering to its buying public as a cheeper alternative to the vette cus that is what the vette is..

Corvette is GM's Mustang...for all intents and purposes....

 

Corvette is GM's Mustang?! You're kidding right??

I'll go along with that the day GM makes a V6, 4 passenger base Corvette, and sells it for under 20 grand. Or perhaps when it makes it's baseline performance version at $28K. Or even when it creates a top version 4 seat that goes for the mid 30s. And most certainly when they begin selling 140,000 per year. But to say Corvette is GM's Mustang is really really reaching. Most Mustang buyers also considered Pontiac's Grand Am coupe, not a Corvette.

With the exception of Porsche, I think Corvette's quality is actually better than pretty much any other car in it's class. Check out the assembly of any expensive 2 seater. Once the Vette gets better looking interior materials (as all new GM cars will be getting starting with the new Grand Prix & Malibu) it will likely be as good as Porsche.

Camaro has always been right behind the Corvette in performance. In fact, early on, Camaro even had the same engines as an option as was available on Corvettes, right down to ZL-1s, LT-1s, and a whole host of other engines.

Though I wouldn't exactly call a $35,000 SS and a $48,000 Corvette not far apart in price ($13,000!!), assuming that Corvette's price doesn't leave Camaro with anywhere to go, automatically assumes (I feel wrongly) that the next Camaro HAS to be way more expensive than the F4s were.

Chevy makes & sells Corvettes at $48,000, & Z06s cost about $52,000 if I'm not mistaken. Yet, GM makes a pretty handy profit on them. Vipers on the other hand, at $75,000 (started about $63K at introduction back in the early 90s) barely broke even till the end of it's production run. Ford's GT will probally never make it's money back. Those cars are priced high for a reason, NOT simply for the fun of it, or to push it into supercar territory.

BTW, all those cars came about after the Corvette, so I wouldn't say Corvette was meant to compete with them. I'd say those cars came out to compete with Corvette, but can't beat the price or value.... Corvette still is the worls's best selling 2 seater by a huge margin.

If the market would bear it, I'm sure GM would push the Corvette's price up, but it's been proven to be a disaster. We are still talking Corvette, not Porsche. There's only so much a person will pay for a name.

 

what I meant by Corvete is GM's Mustang..is you think Ford you think Mustang..you think Chevy you think Vette..thats all..
both make the image and the $$$ for the company..
and the top performance for Ford is the Cobra Mustang..thats where the performance aspect of the stang comes in for a vette..

 

Dont forget that people tend to lease cars over $35,000 and buy those under $25,000 (yes, there are always exceptions). My point is that a person could lease a vette for the same monthly payment as buying a Camaro SS or loaded Z28. Since we Camaro hardcore enthusiasts obvious make up a small minority of the car buyers out there and many people want a sports car to impress the neighbors and the girls attention whos walking down the street. While I will always think the Camaro is the best bang for the buck in automotive history is just doesnt have the BLING_BLING of the Vette.

If a person is looking for attention and doesnt care about modifying their car and have $600+ a month to burn they are more likely to lease a $45,000 vette instead of buying a $30,000+ camaro.

 

Corvette needs to stay right where its at. End of story. The F-body coexisted with it for 35yrs, and it can do it again. Corvette is an affordable supercar, the essence of what an all out American sports car is.

 

johnsocal
Thanks man, pretty much how I was trying to say it. people in there mid 30's to early 50's were leasing vettes..where the target market for Camaro was the mid 30's to 40's..and alot of car companies want you to lease a car..more profit for them on something like a vette...where a Camaro looses alot of value.
Thats where I think after 35 years they got lost in the separation of the vette and fbody...cus they were so close in performance and now after 35 years..and the way you can buy cars now..there wasnt much of a price diffrence..
Im sorry for trying to remeber all this stuff..but the guy that told me this was back on July 4th.. he was the corvette/ specialty vehicles sales guy at his dealership. and under that banner fell the camaro. And sorry to say but hes in the biz to sell cars and he did use the camaro as an example to show how affordable the vette was..and had them sitting side by side on the showroom and the same camaro sat there while the vettes went out the door. Basically you want bang for the buck...not stripped down no thrills models..I mean you go to the dealership you get a really nice car with alot of performance the bang for the buck was the vette..not Camaro.. and I belive thats why or one of the reasons GM axed the Camaro..vette can be had for almost the same "beans" if you buy it the right way..or lease it as he says.
it was a better bargain....
I think the next Camaro will not have nearly the HP or performance it need to compete with Mustang....cus of Vette..thats why I say it had to go a little higher..so that a 400HP SS or Z28 can be made...
after 35 years they got to close and now gotta be separated for our benifit.

 

Thats exactly how I feel..

A dream would be if they figured out how to push the raw performance of a Corvette well into Viper territory by making it lighter and even more aerodynamic, while keeping the fuel economy in check with the DoD (and the lighter weight).. All while keeping the price range the same..

Then the next gen Camaro can come out with the performance and dynamics equiv of a C5.

Its a nice dream..

 

Oh, well then


BTW, to touch on another subject brought up here, I don't have the numbers handy (and don't have time to look them up), but I'm willing to bet that Corvette is the exception to the "above $35,000 leasing rule.

I suspect that most all Corvettes are bought and owned.

 

Yeah, the Corvette was my idea of a "bang for the buck" car. In case you didn't notice, the Vette is still selling strong 7 years into a little changed model cycle. A Vette doesn't even lease that cheap. (You want a cheap lease, look at a Boxster.) In the end, the people who were willing to shell out bought C5s, not Camaros. Oddly enough, most people didn't even appreciate the similarity between the LS-1 F-bodies and the Y-body.

It all come down to the fact that the C5 has the same prestige a Cadillac had a generation ago. I know alot of big-ego-types that drive 'Vettes, and trust me, they wouldn't be caught dead in any other American car. However, if you jack the price up, these guys will start looking elsewhere. After all, why buy a 60K Chevy when you can get a 68k 911 Carrera?

 

Corvette going up in price Sounds like the XLR to me