Robert_Nashville

I can see the issue that there may be more MB buyers on the West Coast (hell, California has the 7th largest economy in the world). I’m not part of the supply chain group so I've never been involved in their cost studies but I would still be surprised if it’s cheaper, per unit, to make that extra voyage - I’ve made the transit from Charleston, through the canal and up to San Diego and trust me when I say, that’s one LONG trip!

Geoff Chadwick

There are many factors involved, but I wonder if this will be just one more factor that makes the the standard passenger car market more cyclical - like the commercial truck market.

I wonder what engineers at the car companies are told to shoot for in their designs for milage longevity. 100k? 200k? 500k? 1000k?

Silverado C-10

Is it wrong to feel warm and fuzzy inside after seeing that pic?

Robert_Nashville

If all one is concerned about is GM's survival; perhaps not...if the concern is for America and the American economy as a whole then yes...it's wrong.

Eric Bryant

Well, the fact of the matter is that people replace cars far more frequently than they need to. Why? Fashion, and cheap credit. One of those just ground to a screeching halt, and the other will suffer as a result.

Depending on the OEM, it's typical to design for 15 years/7000 hours and 150K-250K - and that assumes some rather nasty usage and environmental profiles. The vast majority of the mission-critical parts on your car are totally overbuilt - they'd go 250,000 miles if used in something extremely abusive such as taxi or police service, so they'll last even longer in normal use. The average new-car buyer holds onto their vehicle for four years

But there are a handful of parts that are underdesigned or are prone to excessive variation in the manufacturing process. These parts fail, and either take out other components (think about what happens if an oil pump fails) or just frustrate the owner (corroded components being a major contributor to this in the midwest). Then the car goes to the junkyard and is sold for scrap, despite the fact that 98% of the components are still in usable condition.

Regular and proper maintenance (like what one would see scheduled for commercial vehicles and off-highway equipment) would tend to reduce some of this waste. It's amazing how long something like a lift truck (which often use automotive powertrain components) can run when it gets an appropriate amount of TLC. Maintenance costs increase, but the residual value of used equipment then becomes roughly proportional to the remaining life of the product. Imagine if you bought a $45,000 SUV, put 100,000 miles on it, and then could still sell it for $20,000

In the past, the Japanese OEMs tend to be pretty good about designing their parts for a stated "lifetime" (250K miles), and then damn near everything fails at once. The Americans and Europeans were more likely to build their vehicles with several components that would last for a million miles, and then a handful of parts that would barely make it past the warranty period. It'll be interesting to look back on the current crop of American vehicles ten years from now and see if that's still the case.

NEWBIE T/A

This sounds a lot like the situation with the 80 series ( early 90's thru '97 ) Land Cruisers.

Not that they still capture 1/2 their price 14 + years later, but a good lower mileage one runs around 10K - or did before gas hit it's peak earlier this year.

I bought a '94 in '06 for shy of 8K w/ 168K on the clock - a leap of faith as I have never bought a Japanese vehicle before, but within NADA & KBB used values at the time.

That's a scary thought if accurate as parts for the LC are not cheap, even w/ "connections" for OEM parts thru the crusier board.

However, given that I may put 8K a year on it, I have lots of time & I do try to keep up w/ all the maintenence.

One thing that really impressed me was that all the interior pieces still pretty much have their original color, all the power functions (windows, locks, moonroof ) still work , and the all driveline fluid containing components have drain plugs, which makes changes so much easier to accomplish. Tranny fluid change ?

10 minutes if you reaaally let it drain.

I'd like to see the domestics implement that on their vehicles.

Sorry for the hijack !

Britt

SCNGENNFTHGEN

I agree, they should be making this case, that it is everyone. When I talk to people about it, they say GM is blah, blah, blah.....NOT all of the industry is....They only seem to hear GM bashed on a regular basis!

Adam4356

thats because the bashing is based on the company not the sales. Sales being down is totally different than running your company into the ground on fire.

Robert_Nashville

Very true...everyone's sales are in the tank (the lowest market in some 15 years) but not everyone is running to DC to beg for money to keep then in business.

91_z28_4me

Fixed that for you.

SCNGENNFTHGEN

No, but some of the others are running to their own gov't's for help!

Robert_Nashville

Who specifically?

And regardless of "who", why should I care if they aren't asking for me or my grandchildren to pay the bill for the help??

And even if I cared, am I supposed to be surprised that a socialistic democracy/socialistic government acts like a socialistic government???

And even more importantly; what can I or you do about what some other country decides to do for their native auto industry????

Robert_Nashville

What evidence do you have to suggest that the market conditions will "improve" to the levels necessary to sustain the Detroit Three?

Perhaps the better question is, what evidence has either of the Three CEOs provided to support that position???

SCNGENNFTHGEN

I've heard honda, beemer, benz , so far. I care what they are doing for their business, because they are importing cars here, with the press in their pockets. Which has more to do with this, than anything IMO! So you care about your grandchildren you say? I care about my brothers/cousins/nieces/nephews grandchildren! And what kind of world they get to grow up in, it's NOT looking good from where I sit.

Darth Xed

Trying to understand some people's view on this whole subject...

I'll use child labor as a metaphore/example, since it's the first thing that comes to mind, plus it'll probably upset someone who won't be able to handle that being used in a hypothetical situation, whether it is true or not... but anyway....

What some are saying is that "child labor" is a terrible, terrible thing. So much so that they would not stand for it take place in their country.

But, if the T-shirt they buy at the store comes from a country that allows "child labor", well... that's not their problem.... Heck, it might even be OK to work for a company like that as long as they just take their personal values and apply them in a selective manor...