BW is reporting that the next gen Falcon is coming to NA, and we will get a peak when a Lincoln rear-wheel drive concept is shown at NAIAS.

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/co...tos+index+page

 

Do I hear angels singing?

 

Wheres Gunion???

 

This is news to me. I will be shocked if Orion (NG Falcon/Territory) comes to the USA. My only reservation is that it is going to Lincoln. Does anyone remember how much the LS V8 was??

 

The journey of a thousand miles...

 

How much as in $$? It varied quite a lot. Towards the end, you could buy a V8 LS in the low 30s. MSRP on the V8s was in the 40s.


The LS had one problem. The engines were too small. The V6 LS was the slowest of the 6 cyl luxury cars and the V8 was the slowest of the V8s. In fact, cars like the G35 were a little quicker than the LS V8. The V6 LS was fairly comparable to the BMW 525i in performance and size, and the V8 was comparable to the 530i (maybe a little quicker). When you factor in the BMW brand panache and the interior quality, it was a tough battle.

Some people also thought that the styling was a little too prosaic. Maybe yes, maybe no. I thought the LS was nice looking.

But if they give the concept bold styling and a big Boss V8 (let it be quicker than Jaguar, Ford!), it should get good reviews and sell respectably if produced.

 

Maybe they should crank-out All's version of Hot Rod Lincoln for the unvieling.

 

OK. Here's the situation.

Yes, there is and has been a big effort to have a large RWD sedan at Ford, based on the new Falcon or the D2C (Mustang) chassis. I know J. Mays is heavily in favor of one, and the article also names another designer (NA's Peter Horbury) as favoring RWD.

I got wind that Lincoln would likely have a RWD sedan at NAIAS, but I'm still pessimistic & not only because of what's happened with Lincoln concepts the past number of years.

Paul Mascarenas is vehicle platform executive director for Ford's large platforms, covering FWD/AWD setups. His background is with the Ford Mondeo, and recently taking the Volvo P2 chassis and winning cases to use it on a few key Ford products that would likely have ended up a D2C based RWD otherwise, including the Five Hundred/Montego, not to mention the upcoming Lincoln flagship sedan.

I also suspect he's a key reason the revised Thunderbird (which via unwritten law is just as much required to be RWD as the Mustang) hasn't seen the light of day, and won't till at least 2010... and counting. He's the driving force in replacing the Crown Vic with a FWD car.... and so far, he's been kept at bay.

If.... and right now with all that's going on, that's a really big IF... Lincoln does get a RWD car, it's going to be over the objections and efforts of Paul Mascarenas. He's been one of Bill Ford's favorites (able do make quality cars on the cheap).

With a new CEO at Ford, and among the things he's attacking (with Bill Ford's blessing) is a executive culture that's based on who you know instead of coming up with successful, competitive, hot vehicles, there's a good chance that Paul Mascarenas might finally lose a battle.

 

So I guess his Japanese equivalent is sitting over at Honda keeping Acura from fully competing in the sport/luxury market. Unfortunately for Ford, they're not in the same position as Honda.

The sad thing is that Ford has a competitive RWD chassis (or two) in their empire.

I guess GM had the same sort of people until Bob Lutz rolled over them.

 

The Lincoln LS was actually a pretty hot car when it came out in '99. All the car rags loved the thing! The V6 had a stick, and the V8 had some serious power at the time for having just 3.9 liters. I rented one for a weekend drive from San Diego to Phoenix (when the Z28's clutch went out ) and was really surprized on how well it handles, how speedy it was, and it's relatively low and sporty seating position. Ford was working on a deal with McLauren for a supercharged high performance version (a story in itself ) and under Nasser, there was plans for a Lincoln coupe and a smaller sedan based on the same chassis.


The problem was that in typical Ford fashion, success is answered by stagnation. Ford did absolutely nothing with the car. The 2002 Lincoln Continental concept was a preview of the styling direction for the 2005-2006Lincoln Continental (yes, it was going to get a name change) that was supposed to replace the LS along with the rest of Lincoln's plans was decimated by Ford executives after Nasser was forced out.

The LS got alot of incremental changes that improved perceived quality, performance, & handling (the 3.9 V8 eventially outpowered the LT1! ). But Ford followed up those changes by jacking up the price of the Lincoln LS V8 well into the stratosphere (went from the mid 30s at introduction to well into the $40K range a few years later). Not a good idea for a car that looks visually the same as the previous year's cheaper models.


As for the engine size, the DEW chassis went with the externally smaller Jaguar based V8 (as did the Thunderbird) instead of Ford's modular engine is because it didn't offer the clearance needed (for assembly line purposes). A quad cam V8 will fit into the engine bay, but it will have miniscule clearence on both sides, and it's also going to need a mother of a hood bulge.

The D2C was to answer all the shortcomings of DEW. Cost to manufacture, the ability to fit FORD engines, the ability to easily be adapted to fit a wide range of wheelbases. Till Paul Mascarenas and his Volvo P2 derivitives took over, the D2C was planned to be the basis of quite a few future Fords.



I've often said the MN12 Thunderbird..... and the Super Coupe in particular.... was the best car ever made in it's day not just at Ford, but in America. It took on BMW's best (at the time) and outdid it in performance, handling, and sophistication. My 2nd nomination would be the Lincoln LS (Cadillac's CTS and CTSv was the response to the Lincoln LS and the stillborn Lincoln McLauren LS, and the CTSv was originally planned as a supercharged V6 till Lutz got word an LS6 would be cheaper and lighter).

 

You have no idea how accurate you are!!!!!!

 

Those would have helped. Still, why a 3.9V8 when Jag had a 4.0 and later a 4.2-4.4? I recall going to an event in April '99 on Treasure Island and getting the opportunity to drive an LS against a BMW 528i. The seat of my pants really couldn't notice much power difference. It was noticeably less powerful than my '98 A4 Camaro. The original 252hp LS managed a 1/4 mile of around 15.2 and the later 280hp model managed 14.9. Both were roughly competitive with good 6s in the era (328i and later 330i and G35). The V6 LS was slower than many V6 family sedans.

Of course, the Jag S-type was the next slowest car in the class, and it wouldn't do to have the Lincoln be quicker than the Jag. Fortunately, Ford Oz doesn't suffer from this particular restriction. (Though they're hurt by the same lackluster V8s that Ford's U.S. truck unit suffers from. Just look at the bore/stroke ratio of the 5.4 and tell me what it's doing in a high performance car -- good thing they have the turbo I6 )

I can see there was no quick fix for this, as Ford didn't have a decent V6, and the mod V8s (which really aren't that great but are a better match for a Lincoln than that 3.9) wouldn't fit. The platform and corporate engine limitations just got in the way.

 

You were there too!
I was stationed on the other side of the island at the time in the Coast Guard. Because the thing was on a former Navy base, and because SFPD had an office there, and also because we were also Law enforcement, a few of us were freely allowed into the press intro, and I got to ride (not drive) the new LS. That inside display also had the Blackwood if I remember.

The reson why Lincoln had the 3.9 instead of the bigger Jag engine was market position. At the time, Nasser planned to position Lincoln below Jaguar... on a world stage! Having the Jag engine on a car that was made in America and costing far less than the S-type would have raised alot of Euro eyebrows. Sort of like the same reason why Camaro's LS1 was rated at 310 horses when it was the exact same engine as in the 340 horse version that was in the Corvette.


Don't be mislead. The 5.4 V8 Ford Australia uses is one mean mother! Pointing to a US pickup truck to discredit the engine is like pointing to a 6.0 Silverado to discredit an LS7. Apples to Oranges.

1st, the 5.4 used in Australia isn't the same engine used here. It's Ford USA parts, but it's Ford Australia assembly & spec. the OZZie engine is a 5.4 DUAL overhead cam engine, with unique heads and cams, and a pretty high RPM.

The 5.4 Boss 290 puts out 390 horsepower and 380 ft/lbs of torque (through a single tailpipe! ) without a blower of any kind. Not bad for an engine barely bigger than GM's 5.3 that puts out 300 horses and 323 torque in the current Grand Prix GXP and Impala SS.

Ford's mod engines have alot of potential. The Mod's greatest drawback is it's external size (MASSIVE) and Ford has kept internal displacement pretty small. It's more complex and drinks as much fuel as GM's larger displacement V8s, but you can do things to the mod engines that you'd never consider doing to GM V8s.... or farm animals.

 

I know that the Oz 5.4 is a different animal to the truck 5.4. DOHC 32 valve instead of SOHC 24 valve. But no VVT, as I recall, whereas there is VVT in the truck 5.4, isn't there?

Still, when I read tests in Wheels and Motor, the 5.4 always seems to come in second against the GM V8. Maybe it's local chavinism, but the I6 turbo seems to come out better than the Boss 290. I have to admit that the idea of a big turbo I6 has a lot of appeal to me -- more than a long long stroke V8.

So how close is the Boss 290 to a Mustang Cobra engine without supercharger? Is the Boss 290 an aluminium (not aluminum, since it's Australia ) block engine?

 

The 5.4 may be only .1 L larger in internal displacement but as you pointed out in your next post it is HUGE by comparison. That being said it would be nice to see a Boss 5.4 NA Mustang using the AUS spec aluminum 5.4 V8. That car would intrest me moreso than the 5.4 SC anvil in the GT500.