RWD large Cadillac is back on
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: NC
Which makes no sense to me...
With an alpha car, the CTS and the SLS (and Buick with the Lax) where would an XTS even fit into the line up, if not a BLATANT rebadge?
Okay, I'm officially gonna call typical MT BS on this one....
Last edited by FUTURE_OF_GM; Jul 21, 2009 at 10:39 AM.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Which makes no sense to me...
With an alpha car, the CTS and the SLS (and Buick with the Lax) where would an XTS even fit into the line up, if not a BLATANT rebadge?
And that makes me sad... Because it's exactly what GM SHOULD be doing. Instead, we'll probably get an oversized and over priced Eps II. SSDD from GM.
With an alpha car, the CTS and the SLS (and Buick with the Lax) where would an XTS even fit into the line up, if not a BLATANT rebadge?
And that makes me sad... Because it's exactly what GM SHOULD be doing. Instead, we'll probably get an oversized and over priced Eps II. SSDD from GM.
Consider the XTS the DTS replacement. It may share EP2 with the LaCrosse, but it will have it's own specific sheetmetal, interior, etc. Don't get me wrong, I do have mixed feelings about it - but whatever. Cadillac will have to tread carefully on how this car is positioned. We'll see.
Would it be nice to see Cadillac with an S-Class competitor? Sure. But there aren't enough resources right now to do everything. Plus, Cadillac needs to get it's volume car business in order first, (AKA Alpha), before it worries about a low volume, $80K+ flagship. Post 2015, when Sigma gets replaced or redone, and the economy is better, (assuming we're still a free capitalist society by then), there will be time for the Cadillac "S-Class".
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Joined: Aug 2002
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From: oshawa,ontario,canada
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,597
From: oshawa,ontario,canada
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,597
From: oshawa,ontario,canada
DTS / lacrosse
Front legroom 1,080 mm 1,059 mm
Rear legroom 1,057 mm 991 mm
Front headroom 996 mm 960 mm
Rear headroom 980 mm 945 mm
Front hiproom 1,455 mm 1,341 mm
Rear hiproom 1,440 mm 1,420 mm
Front shoulder room 1,524 mm 1,450 mm
Rear shoulder room 1,504 mm 1,422 mm
Luggage volume 532 L 377 L
Luggage volume (max) 532 L 377 L
Passenger volume 2,987 L 3,238 L
Fuel tank 68.0 L 68.0 L
i don't think a EPII car can be a replacement for the DTS as it looks like its too small.
Front legroom 1,080 mm 1,059 mm
Rear legroom 1,057 mm 991 mm
Front headroom 996 mm 960 mm
Rear headroom 980 mm 945 mm
Front hiproom 1,455 mm 1,341 mm
Rear hiproom 1,440 mm 1,420 mm
Front shoulder room 1,524 mm 1,450 mm
Rear shoulder room 1,504 mm 1,422 mm
Luggage volume 532 L 377 L
Luggage volume (max) 532 L 377 L
Passenger volume 2,987 L 3,238 L
Fuel tank 68.0 L 68.0 L
i don't think a EPII car can be a replacement for the DTS as it looks like its too small.
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,597
From: oshawa,ontario,canada
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
Wonder if GM has looked at bringing an Austrailian built Zeta over has Cadillac. With all the comparisons the G8 GXP got to BMW...if they threw every premium bit Holden has at say a Statesman or Caprice they could make a respectable $50K sedan. The only problem is, they could not take any shortcuts like they did with G8 (i.e. no nav).
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
DTS / lacrosse
Front legroom 1,080 mm 1,059 mm
Rear legroom 1,057 mm 991 mm
Front headroom 996 mm 960 mm
Rear headroom 980 mm 945 mm
Front hiproom 1,455 mm 1,341 mm
Rear hiproom 1,440 mm 1,420 mm
Front shoulder room 1,524 mm 1,450 mm
Rear shoulder room 1,504 mm 1,422 mm
Luggage volume 532 L 377 L
Luggage volume (max) 532 L 377 L
Passenger volume 2,987 L 3,238 L
Fuel tank 68.0 L 68.0 L
i don't think a EPII car can be a replacement for the DTS as it looks like its too small.
Front legroom 1,080 mm 1,059 mm
Rear legroom 1,057 mm 991 mm
Front headroom 996 mm 960 mm
Rear headroom 980 mm 945 mm
Front hiproom 1,455 mm 1,341 mm
Rear hiproom 1,440 mm 1,420 mm
Front shoulder room 1,524 mm 1,450 mm
Rear shoulder room 1,504 mm 1,422 mm
Luggage volume 532 L 377 L
Luggage volume (max) 532 L 377 L
Passenger volume 2,987 L 3,238 L
Fuel tank 68.0 L 68.0 L
i don't think a EPII car can be a replacement for the DTS as it looks like its too small.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
It's supposed to be something of a knockout, but I get a feeling it will be a more stylized CTS. Should be pretty nice.
Wonder if GM has looked at bringing an Austrailian built Zeta over has Cadillac. With all the comparisons the G8 GXP got to BMW...if they threw every premium bit Holden has at say a Statesman or Caprice they could make a respectable $50K sedan. The only problem is, they could not take any shortcuts like they did with G8 (i.e. no nav).
A little insight to Fritz Henderson.
As you know, he's said he's not a fan of badge engineering... and he's gotten some flack from people (including me). We apparently misunderstood what he was saying.
What he apparently means is that he simply doesn't want to simply take a model of one brand, and simply rename it for another division. With the G8, I have to now agree the guy's got a point.
Think about it: A Pontiac G8 with a different nose and sent to Chevrolet showrooms as a Caprice or Monte Carlo is a text book definition of badge engineering. Forget the "GM already has badge engineering in it's ranks" point. When they came out GM wasn't going through bankruptcy, and there's a new marshall in town now. In short, that view simply doesn't wash.
He wants each division to be dramatically different from each other, despite sharing architecture (ie: Solstice & Sky, the new Lacrosse & Malibu, etc). According to GM, money is far too limited to use that way right now (new unique sheetmetal for a Caprice) and the boss says no to rebadging, and by the time they can spend for new sheet metal, it will be a few years, and they will be reday to downsize or whatever, so it doesn't make sense to them.
That's the train of thought.
Seems while the latest insight against badge engineering and division language is "New GM", the way some models get killed but over the top beancounting is still "Old GM" thinking.
