Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
07-08-2005, 03:49 PM
#31
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Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Here is a thought.
What do you think the Next Generation Mustang will look like?
Ok I know the 05’s just came out but with all this talk of retro being a dead end it got me thinking. A lot of guys don’t want the Camaro to go retro because of the question of how you follow up with the next design.
So in all seriousness lets think (especially those who want a retro Camaro) what will Ford do with the next Mustang 6 or 7 years for now? They have to do something. Can they just go from a retro design now to some futuristic Mustang? I honestly don’t know how they can follow this up or keep a retro design fresh for a decade.
For a car to be successful you have to think long term. A retro Camaro may be very cool for a year. But then what? Especially after the Mustang has had the retro styling for 3 or 4 years. People will get sick of it.
GM can’t be this short sited.
Think 7 or 8 years from now GM, will a retro Camaro still sell?
I don’t think so.
What do you think the Next Generation Mustang will look like?
Ok I know the 05’s just came out but with all this talk of retro being a dead end it got me thinking. A lot of guys don’t want the Camaro to go retro because of the question of how you follow up with the next design.
So in all seriousness lets think (especially those who want a retro Camaro) what will Ford do with the next Mustang 6 or 7 years for now? They have to do something. Can they just go from a retro design now to some futuristic Mustang? I honestly don’t know how they can follow this up or keep a retro design fresh for a decade.
For a car to be successful you have to think long term. A retro Camaro may be very cool for a year. But then what? Especially after the Mustang has had the retro styling for 3 or 4 years. People will get sick of it.
GM can’t be this short sited.
Think 7 or 8 years from now GM, will a retro Camaro still sell?
I don’t think so.
Last edited by stars1010; 07-08-2005 at 03:54 PM.
07-08-2005, 03:50 PM
#32
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Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Originally Posted by falchulk
A yellow 69 inspired convertable with black leather interior is what I am dreaming of. Top down while the sun is setting.....hearing the v8 growl. Is there really anything better in life?
07-08-2005, 03:50 PM
#33
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Originally Posted by falchulk
I get your point....but look into buying a 69. See what the car plus a restore is going to run you. Done right its going to be a lot more then a 5th gen.
07-08-2005, 04:01 PM
#35
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Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Originally Posted by falchulk
I get your point....but look into buying a 69. See what the car plus a restore is going to run you. Done right its going to be a lot more then a 5th gen.
“Done right” is a matter of opinion but here is some proof of some nice 1st Gens in that range.
http://www.cars-on-line.com/21031.html
http://www.cars-on-line.com/20874.html
http://www.mershons.com/view_photo.a...image=Exterior
http://www.cars-on-line.com/21014.html
http://www.cars-on-line.com/20740.html
Point being if you want a first gen just about anyone can get one.
You can buy one already restore for less than a 5th gen will most likely cost.
Or you could spend more on one. But you can still find one for less to cruise around in.
07-08-2005, 04:08 PM
#37
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Posts: 1,881
Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Originally Posted by stars1010
Then go buy a 69
There are about 20 diffrent reasons why I want a 69 inspired camaro. I am sure you can think of why a car made with todays advancements would be better. If I could fit a car like that into my life I would. So would a lot of others. Its just not practical. Like I said, I dont want a copy. I want the next step from 69 if they had stayed with that style.
07-08-2005, 04:08 PM
#38
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Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Originally Posted by jrp4uc
I had favored evolutionary with heritage cues in the past, but really if it looks good, it looks good. As RP has said, those who don't like it at first will change their minds in <6 months typically. I'll agree that I was that way about the Mustang.
So basically, do whatever works. Just DON'T MESS IT UP!
Edit:
The problem with evolutionary is that you'll be basing a 5th gen off an arguably unpopular 4th generation style just for the sake of doing so. If it's revolutionary as an alternative to retro (which this thread suggests), then you can't all of the sudden base it off of a Ferrari. That's what the attached pictures borrow from IMO and what others have drawn from (KrisH, etc.). That's just not a Camaro. It's okay to re-invent styling once in a while, and many times warranted, but I don't know that you can do that with a car with such an established history of what it is and what it is not.
From all indications, the styling direction has already been established, so this debate is moot. You cannot blame GM for the styling direction they have decided upon, and frankly it is probably what the public expects out of a Camaro following the Mustang's success. I think it's what they'd be excited to see as a response.
Regardless of styling, at least there isn't a question of whether the car will maintain the proper configuration and door count.
So basically, do whatever works. Just DON'T MESS IT UP!
Edit:
The problem with evolutionary is that you'll be basing a 5th gen off an arguably unpopular 4th generation style just for the sake of doing so. If it's revolutionary as an alternative to retro (which this thread suggests), then you can't all of the sudden base it off of a Ferrari. That's what the attached pictures borrow from IMO and what others have drawn from (KrisH, etc.). That's just not a Camaro. It's okay to re-invent styling once in a while, and many times warranted, but I don't know that you can do that with a car with such an established history of what it is and what it is not.
From all indications, the styling direction has already been established, so this debate is moot. You cannot blame GM for the styling direction they have decided upon, and frankly it is probably what the public expects out of a Camaro following the Mustang's success. I think it's what they'd be excited to see as a response.
Regardless of styling, at least there isn't a question of whether the car will maintain the proper configuration and door count.
Evolutionary? You're right, what does that mean? A cleaned up 4th gen? No thanks.
I know lots at GM are impressed with Mustang's execution, and many at GM are pressing hard to have Camaro emulate it.
I think I'm with most here....I just want it to look good...no, I want it to look GREAT. I'll take some heritage, but I want a contemporary car. I want a Camaro that is executed BETTER than Mustang.
Last edited by Z284ever; 07-08-2005 at 04:12 PM.
07-08-2005, 04:11 PM
#39
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Posts: 1,881
Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Originally Posted by stars1010
You can spend between 19k and 50k on a first gen.
“Done right” is a matter of opinion but here is some proof of some nice 1st Gens in that range.
http://www.cars-on-line.com/21031.html
http://www.cars-on-line.com/20874.html
http://www.mershons.com/view_photo.a...image=Exterior
http://www.cars-on-line.com/21014.html
http://www.cars-on-line.com/20740.html
Point being if you want a first gen just about anyone can get one.
You can buy one already restore for less than a 5th gen will most likely cost.
Or you could spend more on one. But you can still find one for less to cruise around in.
“Done right” is a matter of opinion but here is some proof of some nice 1st Gens in that range.
http://www.cars-on-line.com/21031.html
http://www.cars-on-line.com/20874.html
http://www.mershons.com/view_photo.a...image=Exterior
http://www.cars-on-line.com/21014.html
http://www.cars-on-line.com/20740.html
Point being if you want a first gen just about anyone can get one.
You can buy one already restore for less than a 5th gen will most likely cost.
Or you could spend more on one. But you can still find one for less to cruise around in.
07-08-2005, 04:13 PM
#40
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Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Lilburn, GA, USA
Posts: 2,072
Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Originally Posted by falchulk
A yellow 69 inspired convertable with black leather interior is what I am dreaming of. Top down while the sun is setting.....hearing the v8 growl. Is there really anything better in life?
For me, that would be a very empty feeling. To me, that is very similar to driving a kit car. Sure it has a similar look but it is not the same and you are just pretending to have something else. IT"S NOT THE REAL THING! It is a knock-off weather you want to admit it or not. You are pretending that you have a 69' and you most definatly do not. You can't recreate a classic, you can't. Who is going to want these cars after a number of years. I can see it now, "Oh you bought one of those fake 69's".
I had the same thought as someone else who posted that maybe the people who are for a retro car don't believe that GM can style a new Camaro right and make a truly great design. I think that the current GM design staff can do it and I would love to see what they would come up with but it looks like we might never know.
Please God no.....
07-08-2005, 04:23 PM
#42
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 37
Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Originally Posted by stars1010
Here is a thought.
For a car to be successful you have to think long term. A retro Camaro may be very cool for a year. But then what? Especially after the Mustang has had the retro styling for 3 or 4 years. People will get sick of it.
GM can’t be this short sited.
Think 7 or 8 years from now GM, will a retro Camaro still sell?
I don’t think so.
For a car to be successful you have to think long term. A retro Camaro may be very cool for a year. But then what? Especially after the Mustang has had the retro styling for 3 or 4 years. People will get sick of it.
GM can’t be this short sited.
Think 7 or 8 years from now GM, will a retro Camaro still sell?
I don’t think so.
As for the Mustang, I don't see how the current car being retro affects any future design considerations. If they want to do retro again so be it, if they want to make it revolutionary then they'll do it.
07-08-2005, 04:48 PM
#43
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Location: The Golden State
Posts: 13,711
Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Here is something I want EVERYONE to ponder a bit.
Let's say for a moment, YOU are in a decision making position at GM. You are also responsible for making the next Camaro.
Now, all your bosses see the Mustang blazing the sales charts, and all but carrying the Ford Motor Company. The Mustang looks like a modernized version of it's roots in that all the cues from the past are present and modernized.
Mustang recieved rave reviews from design students, and a very large portion of these new Mustangs are winning over alot of people who would have bought a G35 coupe or some other imported FWD sports coupe, as well as Mustang faithful.
Your marketing department has done extensive studies that showed that the 4th gen Camaro failed because of it's lack of utility and what the public views as a impractical layout. Those same studies also all but mandate a trunk.
Your design studies show that in order to garner public attention, the car has to stand out & look aggressive, but also has to also appeal to women (who now make up about 60% of the buying public) or it's doomed.
That sounds like:
1. It pretty much kills any "Revelotionary" design if you are talking about something that had the impact or looks of the 4th gen, and...
2. The car will at the very least have proportions of the early Camaros in that it will have a "3 box" design, or some variation of it.
Retro is an overused term here, I've noticed. People tend to throw it on everything from PT Cruisers to Mustangs, while ignoring Corvettes, Vipers, SN95 Stangs, & even to an extent, the CTS (it's creased look and stacked headlights is vintage Cadillac, modernized).
I'd say the PT Cruiser, Thunderbird, Mini, and New Beetle are all "retro" in that they completely copy past design themes, down to wheel openings.
The Mustang and Chrysler 300 both reach to the past for influence, but look entirely modern and up to date. The sheetmetal is creased, the beltlines are unusually high, & the wheel opening stampings are exaggerated. The only thing retro about these 2 are the dashboards.
Camaro doesn't quite have to go as far as these 2 did, but I think anyone who thinks GM is NOT going to look at the sales success of the Mustang and it influence any potential Mustang competitor probally is going to be disappointed... IMO.
Let's say for a moment, YOU are in a decision making position at GM. You are also responsible for making the next Camaro.
Now, all your bosses see the Mustang blazing the sales charts, and all but carrying the Ford Motor Company. The Mustang looks like a modernized version of it's roots in that all the cues from the past are present and modernized.
Mustang recieved rave reviews from design students, and a very large portion of these new Mustangs are winning over alot of people who would have bought a G35 coupe or some other imported FWD sports coupe, as well as Mustang faithful.
Your marketing department has done extensive studies that showed that the 4th gen Camaro failed because of it's lack of utility and what the public views as a impractical layout. Those same studies also all but mandate a trunk.
Your design studies show that in order to garner public attention, the car has to stand out & look aggressive, but also has to also appeal to women (who now make up about 60% of the buying public) or it's doomed.
That sounds like:
1. It pretty much kills any "Revelotionary" design if you are talking about something that had the impact or looks of the 4th gen, and...
2. The car will at the very least have proportions of the early Camaros in that it will have a "3 box" design, or some variation of it.
Retro is an overused term here, I've noticed. People tend to throw it on everything from PT Cruisers to Mustangs, while ignoring Corvettes, Vipers, SN95 Stangs, & even to an extent, the CTS (it's creased look and stacked headlights is vintage Cadillac, modernized).
I'd say the PT Cruiser, Thunderbird, Mini, and New Beetle are all "retro" in that they completely copy past design themes, down to wheel openings.
The Mustang and Chrysler 300 both reach to the past for influence, but look entirely modern and up to date. The sheetmetal is creased, the beltlines are unusually high, & the wheel opening stampings are exaggerated. The only thing retro about these 2 are the dashboards.
Camaro doesn't quite have to go as far as these 2 did, but I think anyone who thinks GM is NOT going to look at the sales success of the Mustang and it influence any potential Mustang competitor probally is going to be disappointed... IMO.
07-08-2005, 04:56 PM
#44
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 13,711
Re: Retro vs. Revolutionary: The 5th Gen’s Styling
Originally Posted by stars1010
Here is a thought.
What do you think the Next Generation Mustang will look like?
Ok I know the 05’s just came out but with all this talk of retro being a dead end it got me thinking. A lot of guys don’t want the Camaro to go retro because of the question of how you follow up with the next design.
So in all seriousness lets think (especially those who want a retro Camaro) what will Ford do with the next Mustang 6 or 7 years for now? They have to do something. Can they just go from a retro design now to some futuristic Mustang? I honestly don’t know how they can follow this up or keep a retro design fresh for a decade.
For a car to be successful you have to think long term. A retro Camaro may be very cool for a year. But then what? Especially after the Mustang has had the retro styling for 3 or 4 years. People will get sick of it.
GM can’t be this short sited.
Think 7 or 8 years from now GM, will a retro Camaro still sell?
I don’t think so.
What do you think the Next Generation Mustang will look like?
Ok I know the 05’s just came out but with all this talk of retro being a dead end it got me thinking. A lot of guys don’t want the Camaro to go retro because of the question of how you follow up with the next design.
So in all seriousness lets think (especially those who want a retro Camaro) what will Ford do with the next Mustang 6 or 7 years for now? They have to do something. Can they just go from a retro design now to some futuristic Mustang? I honestly don’t know how they can follow this up or keep a retro design fresh for a decade.
For a car to be successful you have to think long term. A retro Camaro may be very cool for a year. But then what? Especially after the Mustang has had the retro styling for 3 or 4 years. People will get sick of it.
GM can’t be this short sited.
Think 7 or 8 years from now GM, will a retro Camaro still sell?
I don’t think so.
6 or 7 years?
The 4th gen F-body's sales ended up on life support in 1998 after only 5 years on the market.
Ford has never let a Mustang sit that long without a styling change except the 87-93 fox, and that's only because they intended to kill it and hadn't started a replacement.
Heck, we got sick of looking at the current Monte Carlo and Impala after 4 years!
Instead of worrying about the next design, I think it's absolutely VITAL, IMPORTANT, A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH, THINK-OF-THE-FUTURE-IMPORTANT that the next F-body be very very successful out the box...... THEN you can worry about "redesigns".
If you catch my drift, god bless you.
Slick...