I just asked this very question in that long *** thread about a post from cheers/gears. I agree with the original poster. As I said, GM needs to find ways to compete, in ways which it didn't do in the past (or didn't work in the past). Maybe it thought the Cobalt was the way of the future and had sales figures to support it? I don't know, but IF it came back with a 5th gen, it would need a very good and detailed explanation of how it would be able to compete.

Personally, I think that GM/Chevy had the right idea...put more emphasis on new models and make them different. Thats how a business should think, in theory. The fact that everything Chevy now makes is puke-ugly is just my opinion, since in California they seem to be selling fine.

I'm with Kris as well...I used to love the Mustangs more than Camaros for a long time, but there's no equal for the 05 Mustang. I'm not into the 'retro' look because I like the originals, but they're growing on me, especially for its bang/buck.

 

Nice car. Have any pics? I've seen your SEMA chevelle, and am looking forward to your Mustang entry this year.

I would personally prefer an 05 ls2 z28 over an 05 GT, but would easily go 05 GT if i were in the market for a sports coupe now since the 05 z28 doesn't exist. I see the GTO as a fine car and a good value, but it's not my cup of tea either. I don't think i and Kris are alone in this.

To get back on topic, i hope GM never tries to appeal to "ricers" on ANY Camaro . Save that for the Cobalt SS. But they SHOULD however try to cater to the more performance-oriented enthusiasts among the import populace and try to win them over. I believe Ford is doing that to a degree because import owners that didn't previously consider the sn95's are looking at the new Mustang in a different light.

 

Good for you Kris.

If I was looking for a new car today - Mustang is where I would start and finish.

GM has nothing to offer me, although I too am a hardcore GM fan........obviously older products.

 

thank you gold rush
i was afraid nobody else would notice the mention of a "ricey" camaro option
i agree with you, let the cobalt do the rice thing for the rice boys, camaro is a musclecar, not some poser civic

 

Wow, that response sure put me in my place.

It's right up there with all the other tired arguments. Who buys a car for how it performs STOCK? That's just stupid.

Here's my logic, and take it with a grain of salt. The 05 GTO comes in at around what, $34K? It has 400hp. I picked up my Mustang for $27K. Now I can pick up an intercooled ProCharger system for $5K, retail (which isn't my thing...) and come out out about 480-500hp and still not have as much into the car as I would if I bought a GTO. That's just my thought on the bang for the buck matter.


Kris

 

welcome to the ex-bowtie fold,you will love that new stang.wait till it gets broken in a bit,it will get a little quicker.

 

The fact of the matter is that the Camaro's day is done. At least to me. They have until around 2008 to come out with something that will stop me from buying a 480HP Cobra. Yeah, not gonna happen. I agree with Kris on the matter too, the '05 GT is a better deal than the GTO. And I would have done the same had I needed a fast, RWD couple for less than 30k.

 

Kris, congrads on your purchase. Don't let the nay-sayers tell you otherwise, but IMHO you made a good purchase.

I checked out a few GTs the local dealer had out front with the hood up and the mach1000 pumping in one of them (it attracted alot of passerbys). That car rocks!!!

I've seen it before, and drove the V6, but oddly enough, even though it looks alot the same, the GT has a different personality. And that stereo......

"Proudpony" and myself have tried to tell some of the guys here that it's PERSONALIZATION that made the Mustang a far more desireable car than the Camaro. It's the exact same thing that's making "Ricers" so popular. It's also the same thing that made cars fun in the 70s, despite emission standards.

Mustangs have a bewildering array of factory and aftermarket performance & personalization parts, and plenty of tuners with packages or models based on the car. Something I sorely missed when I bought my '97 Z. Sure, it's fast from the factory, but it's not as much fun to own when you can't do much to it.

GTO is more of a Grand Touring car & not exactly the type of car you'd buy just to customize. Sure, you'll have the few people that'll bolt on a supercharger, or aftermarket engine parts, but we are talking not only rarety, but a playing field at a whole new price level, not just in the car, but in the parts as well.

 

Wow....did I do all of this?

I didnt say that he Mustang GT isnt a good car. I dont like Mustangs, and I have never pretended to. I will never ever spend my hard earned cash on one. I think the new one is butt ugly and 8 years behind a pair of dead cars. Its big sucess is because there is nothing there to take it down a notch. There is no 2dr Charger, there is no Camaro. There is nothing to compare it too, much like the 300C. Its running away with massive sales beause there is nothing out there to trump it.

In that case, I would much rather spend the money on a much better feeling and fitting GTO. But that is my opinion. Not knocking your purchase, and please dont take it as such. I just dont like Mustangs.

 

Al, you gotta read your post as an outsider. I know you don't like Mustangs, but geeez!

"8 years behind a couple of dead cars?"
What, If Mustang was the better car, the positions would have been reversed?

"Big success because nothing's there to take it down a notch?"
Nothing's there to take Mustang down a notch because Mustang did a little bit more than simply take it's competition "down a notch".

Let's face it. Just like Cadillac makes better luxury cars than Lincoln by actually trying to be world class instead of a has-been, Corvette is a better value than Viper by offering superior bang for the buck, and the 300 trumps every other US made family sedan in sales because of styling impact and the halo from the potent Hemi in the "C". Ford Mustang created the pony car market, Ford Mustang is more successful in it's market, and it's driven every direct competitor into the grave due to having a superior pulse of it's market than anyone else. Including the F-body.

Whenever we get the F-body back from the dead, and we see that it trumps the Mustang, then we have a different story.

 

There is no competition for the Mustang!! Its by itself!! 350z is too low-produciton, as is the G35, GTO, and other 2dr coupes.
Eclipse is FWD.
There is no Charger or Camaro to sit next to the Mustang. If there was anything there for the Mustang to actualy go against, I dont think the the Mustang's sales would be this high. In fact, between GM or DCX, there coupe would probably outdo the Ford, especialy DCX since they are riding high on the Hemi wave.
"In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king."

If my aunt had *****, she would be my uncle.

Fact is that the Mustang as a car doesnt spur any sort of excitment. One of my tech's has an Original GT500, and drives it to work. That car has a cool factor to it, even if its a Mustang. If this car did some serious job on performance like the Fbodies did in the 90's, then I would have a bit more respect for it. Its a good car, and after sitting int he GT500 at the Auto show, it has more Fbody in it then I think Ford would like to admit too. No doubt that the 05 Mustang GT is a great car, but it doesnt raise the bar IMO. It only updated it.

 

Lets be honest here Guion, the M*stang did nothing to our cars in any way. In fact, the M*stang helped make the F-Bodies look like better cars performance-wise if anything. It was GM that was at fault.

We've been over the mistakes of the 4th Gen's and why they were a flop so many times I won't bother to re-state them, but GM and the (mis)management at that time are the true culprits, which we should all know. The way the M*stang sold had nothing to do with the wrong decisions that were made for the 4th Gens and how management decided to treat them. The same goes for the B-Body, and those cars were best sellers. Again, GM was mostly at fault.

 

I dont think that the Mustang has there "finger on the pulse" as much as the Fbodies did. I think that was the problem, is that the finger was on the enthusiast pulse, and not on the "hey, I want a nice 2dr 6cyl sports coupe" pulse.
Ford's finger has been on that pulse for a long time. Even Mr.Shelby HIMSELF said tha the Mustang was a "secretary's car". It was designed to be a nice personal 2dr sports car. Just so happens that there was a hp war going on, and Mustang as well as every other popular car got stuffed with bigger and badder engines to please a ever growing population of enthusiasts.
IMO...Ford never lost touch with the Secretaries out there while GM took there Fbodies to the next level of an all around performance car.

 

Exactly. The Camaro was built to be a true performance car and never looked back. It only became more apparent as the years went on. Which once again brings in the question if you can really consider the Camaro a true and perfect match to the M*stang, because the answer to that is no. They have had slightly different purposes, with the Camaro being more sporty and performance designed than the coupe with some sporty looks added, which has been the M*stang.

 

Perhaps I should then rephrase my question so thatit puts it better into perspective.

How could the camaro lure secretaries..or rather non enthusiasts?

I really think the goal isnt to copy mustang... but to try and offer something similar but that might attrack people who are not sure about mustang.

Here is another idea... perhaps the camaro could come in a variety of different body's (2 or 3)... now I know we have bashed GM for doing to many badge engeneering jobs, but this couldn't be called that since they would all be under the chevy logo. People could by that same camaro with a few different looks.. That would be a first in the industry would it not?