GM needs to build back market share and sell units. IT desperately needs some success in mid-size sedans. It needs to create a good reputation among the 16-35 set, most of whom right now would never buy an American car. The Camaro/Firebird may have to wait. GM does have some bigger fish to fry.

GM would have never built an F-Body in the first place if Ford wasn't killing them with the Mustang. The very famous Bel-Air nameplate has been dead for years, turning up only occasionally at car shows. These things do happen, and the Camaro and Firebird names carry a lot of baggage, some of it not too good. If (and when) GM believes a new Camaro/Firebird will help them make money, they'll build it--simple as that.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but shouldn't a panel van be cheaper to manufacture and fabricate that the retractable hardtop in the SSR? Wouldn't it also be lighter and more aerodynamic?

Price it under $30K and we could have a winner here.

 

I like the SSR and I think a panel wagon would be cool.

Give GM some time. It appears they are trying at least.

 

Very informative post.

Yes, I do realize the Solstice is bigger than a Miata. The Miata is literally a Go-Kart. But still, the Solstice is significantly smaller than a Camaro.

Now, I'm gonna do some of my own shooting down of misconceptions. First of all, when people list these dimensions and say "Look, there's only 3.1 inches of difference, no big deal", it's actually a bigger deal than the numbers lead you to believe.

The dimensions above are 1-dimensional. The width of a car is 1-dimensional. However, when someone speaks of car SIZE, they generally mean the 3-dimensional volume of the car.

Now, for example and for simplicity, let's say the cabin of a car is a sphere. Now, that means the width of the car would be the diameter (d) of the sphere. Now, while the width = d, the volume = 4/3*pi*(d/2)^3. Basically, while you increase d, the volume increases proportional to half the diameter cubed. So small increases in width, lead to a more sigificant increase in volume.

Now, modeling a car cabin as a sphere may sound odd at first, but it's not that far off the mark, especially if a car designer wants to keep the car's proportions roughly the same. It wouldn't be as simple as just taking the current 4th gen, and chopping 3" off of the width, as that would look akward (the car would appear taller and skinnier). To compensate for the change in width, headroom and other cabin dimensions would have to be adjusted accordingly.


So 74.1" is only 4.4 % bigger than 71", but this is 1-dimensional.

However, with a simple sphere, 71" width would give a volume of about 187,000 cubic inches.

A 74.1" sphere would give a volume 213,000 cubic inches.

So this 4.4% increase in width, actually resulted in a 13.9% increase in volume, a much more significant difference.

Also remember that looking at a car by itself can be deceiving. Car size is relative to other cars, but car proportions are only relative to the car itself. For example, if you look at a Solstice, and it has a width to length RATIO that is greater than the current Camaro, it may appear wider. However, once you put the cars side by side, you will see which car is ACTUALLY wider.

So, guionM, you were considering 1-dimensional dimensions, I was considering 3-dimensional differences. Now, I do realize the Solstice is not Miata size (I like to exagerate), but basing a Camaro on the Soltice platform would either make the car noticeably smaller, or give it some odd proportions.

I also realize that GM isn't going to build a Camaro specific platform. However, the Soltice platform isn't the next best choice.

 

OK, let me just come right out and say it:

The cheapest & easiest thing to do to a car's structure is to lengthen it's wheelbase. Front & rear crash testing is simplier, side impact standards are simplier, rollover standards are simplier, and reengineering is much much simplier & cheaper.

Take a chainsaw to the 4th gen behind the rear seat, pop in a low windshield, and you have a Solstice sized car. Conversely, take a Solstice, lengthen the wheelbase enough to accompany a back seat (which Buick is doing with it's Bengal....which seems to be Mustang sized) and you have a Camaro without the massive overhangs.

I think we can safely say that a Camaro replacement will have alot less overhang, and will have at least a modest increase in wheelbase over the current edition. Guess what proposed car is made to order with regards to this?

I posted this in another thread, so I'll keep this other point short. Taking a CTS & redoing it to be a Camaro would at the least mean making a lower cowl (firewall), dictating a reengineered front structure & related crash testing. Same goes for the sides, roof, and rear end. Otherwise, you'd have what basically is already a GTO or a 2 door CTS. It would be far from the sleek 4th gen we have now.

Maybe with all these negative connotations behind using the Solstice Sigma, maybe we should refer to it as a Bengal Sigma, since it will be longer & will be a 4 passenger car as opposed to Solstice's 2.

Which is why I posted Solstice's dimensions with Camaro, Mustang, and Miata so those of you who may fall for that deception will have a point of reference to go by.

As you see, it may be short, but it's not exactly small.

 

Lets say money is not an issue and we had a choice between redoing the CTS Sigma or useing the Bengal Sigma as the new Camaro, which one would perform/handle better? Does anyone have a clue?

While I want a new Camaro as soon as possible, I also want a world class car. If the Bengal platform can bring the car to us faster but it doesnt live up to the Camaro name I dont know if I want that.

Also while I see your point GuionM about useing the Bengal/Solstice platform and it make complete sense to me, didnt RP come here and say "no way", "not going to happen"?

 

Ok, I'm with you as far as size goes. A stretched Solstice (as in Bengal), in my view, is just about the right size for a modern Camaro.

But calling it a Bengal Sigma may be a bit of a reach. All we know for sure about this new platform is that it will draw heavily from GM's parts bin and be designed to be cheap. If it truly is generously fortified with Sigma or other premium components...I think we've got ourselves a winner.

 

Isn't the Soltice a brand new platform?

If GM can come out with a brand new platform, perhaps they can resurect the F-body platform if they decide to bring the Camaro back.

If not, why not modify the GTO or CTS platform? Wouldn't launching the Camaro line again be quite expensive anyways?

I suppose that stuffing a V8 into a Solstice and throwing a Camaro body on it would be the cheapest way out. However, I'd rather wait for the Camaro to be done right, as opposed to coming back as a Solstice-based car.

Are you sure a V8 drivetrain would even fit into the Soltice without modifications?

 

Solstice is a parts-bin conglomeration, a la Fiero.

 

He did. He basically laughed at the idea, leading me to think that the Solstice platform is very incorrect theory. I have my money on the GTO/Grand Prix/Chevelle platform that is in the works. Chances are it'll come back on that.