Maybe I'm wrong HAZ....but I get the impression that you've never experienced Firebird in it's "glory days". The thing was absolutely dripping with Pontiacness in ALL aspects. And yes, it's motors were a big part of that.
And I've got a secret for you.......come alittle closer.....THOSE CPC MOTORS IN THE '80s WERE, (WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE IRON DUKE).... CHEVY'S.

The only hint of the way Firebird used to do business, was with the execution of the 20th anniversary Turbo T/A.

Whether you think the Camaro is special or not is your business. But to put forth the argument that when Camaro and Firebird were equipped with identical Chevy engines....it was Camaro that lost it's uniqueness....is simply ridiculous.

I've always been a Camaro guy....but I've always appreciated how Firebird was something different than Camaro. They used to be cars which wouldn't automatically be cross shopped with Camaros.

Those days are looooong gone.

 

If GM doesn't bring back the Firebird/Trans Am, I won't be buying another f-body.

Unless its at a used car lot. The only camaro that will ever grace my driveway/garage and actually be mine would be a first gen.

I don't *mind* the look of 98+ Camaro SSs....but it would almost have to be given to me if it were to be mine.

 

This is pretty much what I was trying to say before. It may be a bit extreme of a view... but so is saying Firebirds are generic, so it's all fair.

Some will disagree , but sometimes it's hard to see something you don't want to, or some just have different points of view on the matter.

 

Fair enough. But if Firebird ever returns....it would need to be something different than a Camaro with the "Pontiac styling package" for me to have any interest in it.

Different engines are a good starting point.

 

I don't know that different engines would happen, or needs to. The cars definitely need their own personalities, and they have had them up to this point with varying degrees. But just because they might be based off the same platform and have similar drivetrains does not necessarily mean they are "styling packages" apart.

If a Saturn Ion can build an identity separate of a Cobalt, Malibu separate of a G6, I think Camaro and Firebird could co-exist. This would require more imagination than we saw for most of the 4th gen, but they each have enough history to build upon for that distinction.

All that said, I don't envision GM slotting another such car under GTO at this point out of their own fear of too many coupes.

 

At the very least, a differently tuned engine would be ok. It would be nice to get back to the idea of a pony car with "European" style and handling though.

 

Ok, so it seems most people feel that the Firebird lost itself when it shared powertrains with the Camaro. With that being said, if the Firebird came back with Forced Induction, AWD etc, wouldn't that be enough for it to differentiate itself from Camaro? That's what I'm asking, not to hear from everyone Firebird is dead. I understand that Pontiac does not currently have any plans to bring the 'bird back but it's still an intriguing pissibility nonetheless if it was to be produced this way.

 

Seeing as how I'm a youngster and was born basically after the Firebird become the clone, I personally wouldn't care if the Bird was just a Camaro with a better interior and more aggressive looks, which was essentially the 4th Gen formula. But the better idea for GM, and pretty much the only way they could bring it back, would be to make the car such that it really gave the buyer something different from the Camaro.

 

Retro vs "retro"

 

No, that one is pretty clear cut.

 

For some

 

See, this is very difficult to relay to anyone who missed the Trans Am craze of the late 70s. Any attempt to try to explain, ultimately distills down to Firebird having a different engine. But it was much much more than that. What makes it even more difficult is that there has been nothing to compare it to since.

Simply put, Pontiac decided to go after the Corvette in the mid 70s, and successfully actually did it, at a Camaro price while distancing itself from Camaro.


Engines were the big part of it. However, back then all GM divisions had autonomy. That means that Pontiac's own people determined what to do with the Firebird. With the 3rd gen, and especially with the 4th gen, the Firebird was positioned by GM in relationship to the Camaro, within General Motors. Pontiac just happened to be the one selling the car.

In the late 70s, Pontiac was lumped in with other GM divisions from a marketing standpoint. This means that the person running Pontiac also had other divisions to focus on. Where Trans Ams once had knockout interiors, it was now interchangeable with Camaro. It's handling was interchangeable with Camaro.

Perhaps 1982's Firebird isn't the exact moment Firebirds died, because Pontiac was in their "Aero" phase, and the '82 Bird had the lowest drag of any production car that year. But the decline most certainly started that year.

The 1989 Turbo Trans Am was one last hurrah for the Bird the way it used to be. It not only had a unique engine, but it also had it's own tuned suspension, a more stand apart interior, and it had it's own soul. It ran with Corvettes just like the old days, but in this instance, it also cost like a Corvette too.

I suppose if you take the 2005 GTO with it's hood scoops, red caliper brakes with "GTO" insignias on it, and GTO's gaudy interior, and then replace it with the current smooth Monaro hood, standard issue GM brake calipers, and replace the metal and special interior trim with monocolor grey interior that looks like it came out of a Malibu, and give it a slightly softer suspension, sell it as a Chevy & then charge just as much for it as the much fancier 2005 GTO and you have a modern day difference between the late 70s Firebird & Camaro (while having the same drivetrain).

 

While we're all sitting here deabating when the loves of our lives died, lets all agree on one thing, regardless if Pontiac ripped off the Camaro or not.

They were both great, spectacular cars.

Now they're BOTH gone.

I'd be happy to have either one back, so at least one F-Bodies could carry on, even though I'm more partial to Firebirds.

Frankly, I don't care when one became more like the other. They were both badass, beautiful cars, and it sucks that they aren't here anymore.

 

WTF is a firebird

 

You are being sarcastic right?

See this is what gets me. Just about everyone says that the Firebird is dead and to forget about it. What I don't get is everyone gets in a fuss about the Camaro being on "hiatus" and what not but noone seems to care about the "bird. But why/how is the Camaro more important than the Firebird? I just don't understand it. Can someone please explain this to me? Other than that the Camaro has a more recognizable nameplate, why couldn't it be the Firebird coming back and not the Camaro? I understand that Chevy is pulling really hard for the Camaro's return (RP anyone ) (and Pontiac is not doing the same for the Firebird ) but why couldn't the roles be reversed?

And trust me, I love the Camaro just the same and am thrilled it "will" be making it's return. But, for a lack of a better term, disrespect shown for the Firebird is unsettling.