...modified Flux Capacitors...

 

I'm with Guion....Firebird died for me after 1981. After 1981, Firebird became the generic GM sport coupe for Pontiac. Sorry if that offends anyone...but I feel strongly about it.


That alternate universe would require Pontiac powered Camaros.

 

Ya, but what I'm saying is that both Camaro and Firebird are (were) powered by GM Powertrain... there are no more Chevy/Pontiac/Olds, etc engines....

 

Very true Darth. But what I am saying is, that is precisely what made Firebird so special.

 

People were willing to pay through the nose for Firebirds pretty often over the past 15 yeras or so, so I think they'd be more than willing to pay 40 or even 45 grand for one with AWD and a blown engine.

Late model WS6s went up to $35,000 (for a car whose performance they could have had at $25K via the Formula Firebird). These seem like the only Firebirds selling in the end. In today's dollars, the '89 Turbo Trans Am was well over $40,000. Then there were those Trans Am GTAs that were nothing more than overpriced Trans Ams.

Take a 5th gen F-body, add a turbo V6, AWD, load it up with goodies standard, it wouldn't even matter if an automatic was the only tranny available, give it a beak & Pontiac's "Edsel" styled tail lights, and market it as a showroom magnet the way Chevy does the Corvette, Dodge does the Viper, Ford does the GT & Thunderbird, and Pontiac mistakenly tried to do with the current GTO.

It wouldn't effect the unofficial Corvette rule (which applies only to other Chevrolets), give Pontiac something to talk about again (they often bragged about TAs accelerating and handling as good as Corvettes back in '77 & '78), wouldn't overlap Camaro's market, and wouldn't effect GTO's position in the least. Best of all, with Zeta planned for AWD versions anyway, and like the 1st gen, Chevrolet footing the bill on the body, it could make for a good possibility.

As for GTO's position, GTO is a good (and potentially great) muscle car, but IMHO it's foolhardy to use it as a "Halo" car. For one thing it's a sleeper. It doesn't look spectacular, but it will eat or not be shaken off by anything with more than 2 seats short of a blown Cobra.

The other thing is why exactly is Pontiac using a traditional muscle car to mark their "new" direction anyway? This is simply Pontiac returning to the 1960s, not the "high tech" sophistication BMW represents.



BTW: Thanks for the complement, but I'm just good at finding out things. There's actually a few other people here (who will remain nameless to protect their idenity) that actually have a "wealth of information" that puts mine to shame.

 

So very true.

But there are engines GM powertrain has in other applications that could have been used to differentiate the Firebird Trans Am.

Caddy's Northstar, the supercharged 3800 (just add intercooler), the 6.0 truck engine (light duty trucks follow the same emission standards as cars) come to mind.

The thing about the 6.0 is that not only would it have cleared emissions, it would have cleared crash testing since it's the same engine as the LS1. The only real investment would have been in upgrading the cooling system.

 

See, this is what gets me frustrated. Your previous post about how people were willing to pay through the nose for Firebird for the past 15 years is what gets me thinking that a version of the Firebird proposed here could/should be a success if done properly. So why isn't there anybody at Pontiac or GM pushing for this? I mean, why throw away a recognizable nameplate that has such a deep tradition as well as a loyal following just for the sake of doing so? Is GM really that archane of a corporation that new and exciting ideas can not be thought up? How hard would it be to use the Zeta platform and do this? It'd be nice if history would repeat itself and Firebird returns based on a quick turnaround.

I really like your idea of marketing it like Chevy does Corvette and Dodge does the Viper. I think it could be a huge success and bring more traffic to Pontiac showrooms. As you said above, the GTO is a sleeper, and I don't think brings the same excitment a well designed, a little more aggressive Firebird could bring. It's just so frustrating for it to seem pretty simple of an idea to grasp but yet Pontiac and GM can't. I would really love to see the 'Bird back.

 

I think it all has to do with focus and priorities.

Pontiac is in the midst of a pretty massive product overhaul (it was right behind Cadillac), so I imagine the goal is to get volume up as quickly as possible, while focusing the cash on performance versions of the cars coming out.

The G6 is going to have a coupe, a supercharger, and a retractable steel roof within the next 2 years. The G8 is due to be out, also within the next 24 months. Then you have Solstice which is due within the next 18 months. Good money on Sunfire getting replaced within 18 months. GTO is getting a makeover this fall & a new one will be out in 36 months, and you can bet the family dog that "something" is going to happen to the Grand Prix by then as well.

So as you see, Pontiac is pretty much at critical mass as far as new vehicles, so it's doubtful that they have any time at all to put together what is essentially going to be a very low production somewhat exotic car.

Maybe when things stablize at the end of the decade (right around when the 5th gen should get it's refreshening), but I think it's pretty near impossible for Pontiac to get something like that together now, even if they really wanted to.

 

never say never guys, with the seaming 'horsepower war' taking place who knows, mabey buyers will soon be going crazy for performance cars and turn away from SUV's
I think the fate of the car will lye on current trends. If the 'new' mustang, f5 camaro solstice do much beter than expected i dont think it would be unreasonable to bring back a car with such recognission.....even my mom knows a 'firebird' means performance

GM brought back the GTO name 30- some odd years later, and everyone said that car was 'dead'

So bacially all im saying is 'you never know'

 

Which would mean that Camaro was Chevrolet's generic sport coupe since 1967.

 

I had finally come to peace with the firebird dying, but two things happened.

-Three months ago, I got one (over a Camaro of the same year/similar milage too, mind you).

-I found this post.

Now you've got me all fired up, angry with Pontiac. I was hoping that it would come back out at the time when I'm able to afford a new one, in say eight to ten years, but you guys KILLED that for me.

This quote I found on the board sums it up:
"Ever since I saw Smokey and the Bandit [before I was born]my biggest dream was to roll a brand new black Trans Am off the lot. All mine nobody else ever owned it. I alwasy felt this was a fair dream, not like wanting to be a millionare with a Ferrari or something. When I found out, that this dream had been stripped from me I was almost in tears."

I love Burt Reynolds. I love the firebird! Bring it back! (weeps)

 

It seems this post has gotten alot more responses and views from previous possible 5th gen firebird threads. So I'll say this again, it seems we got enough people on this board who love the firebird and want it back. So lets have GM and Pontiac hear us. Send letters and emails to them. Maybe like the " Save the Camaro" sticky up top, if enough emails get sent a buzz can be created where it would have to get filed under a certain number so that management up top would read it.

Guionm: After reading your reply on all the things Pontiac is doing right now with GTO, G6, Solstice etc. it at least soothes the pain just a bit. But it would be nice if Pontiac had plans in mind for the return of the Firebird, their most recognizable nameplate.

 

How do you figure that?

 

So if the Pontiac motors were what made the Firebird special, than what was it that made the Camaro special? Chevrolet motors? If so than I'll change the date at which the Camaro became a GM generic sport coupe to the 80's when it was powered by motors created by the CPC engine group.

As the Firebird and Camaro were essentially the same car for the 3rd gen, if the Firebird was no longer special than the Camaro was not special at that point either. It was either not special because it had become nearly the same car as the Firebird, or it was not special because it had never been special since its inception.

 

Maybe i missed this but whats the G8 going to be??? A Bonneville replacement with a FWD 5.3