My point exactly

 

It doesn't need to be that way, just because they share a platform.

Would you consider XLR and Corvette to be the same thing?

 

That's a perfect analogy.

C6 and XLR share basic platforms...yes. But they are substantially different products. Different bodywork. Different features (retractable steel roof). Different engines. Different interior. Different market.

A Camaro based Firebird would never have this sort of differentiation. If GM would go that far with it...I'd be all for it. To use the above anology...it would be like putting an Escalade grill on a C6 and calling it an XLR. And replace the Z06 emblem with a V badge.

 

Ok, I'm a pretty stubborn guy, and I do like RWD, but I think that AWD on a Firebird may be a good idea. NOT if its a 6 cylinder grand am "2 door" sedan, but rather a real Firebird, just as they have been, a low slung agressive coupe, complete with a v8, manual, T Tops and everything as they have for years. I think people could warm up to the AWD in that scenario and the Firebird very well could make a new, better name for itself. However, as neat as those turbo v6 TA's were, I dont think people will accept a regular production v6 Trans Am. Maybe thats just me.

I think the G6 will be a fantastic car and I very well would want one, same with the solsitce. A turbo 4 roadster may very well be a neat car and the G6 is a pretty stylish sedan with good power, but they are different from what a Firebird is. That is my opinion.

 

I'm all with you here... pretty much exactly how I feel.

I think it is at least worthy of consideration, especially since an AWD system would be already in the parts box for the platform!

 

Only if there was a way to shove the Atlas I6 inside of the upcoming hybrid VE/Sigma platform. Then we could have a very different but radical firebird that would complement the Camaro.

Firebird 4.2L I6 RWD (250hp) and 4.2L TT I6 AWD (400hp)

Camaro 3.5L V6 (250hp) and 6.0L V8 (400hp)

I'm still really hoping that TT I6 makes it into production in a car somewhere...

 

They always have been different, that was the point of my previous post. Even though they shared the same platform from
day one, the Firebird and Camaro are two different cars. If you
go away from the V-8 engine with rear wheel drive, you no longer
have a Firebird do you? It is kind of interesting that it seems to
be assumed here that the Firebird is always born from the Camaro when that is not always the case. That was true with
the first generation cars (1967-1969) but not from then on. During the development of the second generation, Pontiac's
styling and engineering had as much or more to do with the development of those two cars than Chevrolet did. In fact, the
semi-fastback body shell was conceived by Pontiac and not Chevrolet. Every generation since has followed that styling theme first set down by Pontiac for the second generation

So, in a word, no, I do not want a Firebird that is a turbocharged
six cylinder with all-wheel drive while the Camaro remains rear
wheel drive with V-8 power. We then wouldn't have a Firebird that was true to it's heritage. In other words, we wouldn't have
a real Firebird anymore.

 

If a few people want GM to do something "interesting", why not do something "interesting" with the Camaro?

And as a previous Firebird/ Trans Am buyer, I do not want a future AWD, turbo V-6 Firebird. It's just not a Firebird or Trans Am.

And as far as differentiation, the 4th gens are probably the most different F-bodies ever built, looks wise.

This should continue with a 5th gen. The 2 cars should only share mechanicals, gray metal, windshields, A-pillars, and partial roofs.

And like I said before, give the Camaro a hatch, and give the Firebird a trunk.

And if there are two different V-8s available (both, of course, with adequate power), then by all means utilize them.

 

No...but to get that level differention (totally different, bodies, powertrains, and exterior) on the Firebird would cost way too much for GM to swallow.....especially whenhthey are working hard just to differentiate the GTO from the Camaro. What people are not getting is the GTO is already slated to the 5th Gen Camaro what the Firebird used to be...only with a little more product differention.

You keep thinking of the Camaro and Firebird as equals....they may be the same car, but financially the Camaro name is more valuable to GM than the Firebird name. Therefor GM is much less likley to be risky with it.

 

I agree with alot of your post, but......
Explain to me. Different in which way? 1st and 2nd gens were different and even had a substantially different image. OK, fine.

What about since 1982.......what is so different?

Has the Firebird blossomed since then? Do you think that it's possible for Firebird to ever regain the stature it had in the '70s without changes?

If we ever see another Firebird....in addition to being stylish, fun and fast it must also be different than Camaro.

Otherwise, it will be dead for a long, long time.

 

Why not? most of the engineering would already be done for the camaro anyways. Is that not a good enough reason? It's just a matter of making them look different and giving them different options (ex: ws6 option which can't be found on camaro, etc...).

The 3000GT and Skyline are based off a RWD architect, and the Vr-4's and GTR's AWD system is RWD biased (Skyline can adjust to 50:50 but remains rwd biased for the most part). An epsilon AWD system would be FWD biased. I don't know about the 3000Gt's, but the Skylines AWD is said to be fairly sophisticated as well. It is also made/engineered to handle high horsepower applications (1000+hp capable I’ve heard). Can an epsilon AWD system handle that much power? It’ll probably start to break before 500hp is even reached. Both are also fairly expensive, and a vehicle of their (skyline/Vr-4) caliber doesn’t come cheap (do we want a 50k firebird???). Also, the non-AWD firebirds (which would most likely be non-TA models) would be front drivers. A FWD formula….what I disgrace.

There’s potential though. An AWD system would definitely separate it from the camaro. I’d only welcome such though only if a Gen-V v8 was offered (same one in camaro), and if the styling was distinctly firebird (not some grand am’sh looking sedan, but sleek and hatch). The AWD system would also have to be RWD biased (read: based off Rwd platform), and it must be capable of handling high Hp #’s reliably. If it can’t do all that, then stick to the old design philosophy/formula (rwd/v8).

 

The Firebird has been always been the top performer of the two. The Firebird is also the only factory offered f-body from GM that has been forced-inducted. (81' 301) and the 89' Buick 3.8). While the Camaro is the more notable f-body, it isn't the most famous. The Firebird has been used in Hollywood more often than the Camaro.

While the 3rd gens were pretty much the same, remember that Pontiac released the fastest third gen, the 89TTA/SLP Firehawk. Also, the most famous third gen is also a Firebird(KITT).

Without the Firebird, there wouldn't have ever been a Camaro SS for the 4th gen. Remember, SLP started Firehawks in 94' and added the SS in 96'. There's also been the Comp T/A, the Harley Davidson T/A, and the Hurst/Lingenfelter TA.

 

You gotta be joking, more famous and top performer LOL. I say lock this now because we can all see where this is going.

 

Lets not even start what the top f-body was. It doesn’t matter. I already see a "Z28 vs. SS" type argument starting. Lets not go down that road again. Both Firebird and Camaro are famous and both have high performing qualities.

 

Okay...

455 SD, 6.6, 89 TTA, 92-95 Firehawks... ...yeah, the Camaro's in those years were so much ****ing faster.



By the way, those suggesting that Pontiac should apply the Firebird or TA moniker on the G6 or Solstice coupe ; Chevy should release a Cobalt coupe, with the new Atlas 2.8 I4, turbo it; add awd, and call it the Camaro Z/28! Get it, 2.8 I4...