I don't think anyone is arguing this... I think most people's problem is that they look nearly identical.

 

So what if they "look nearly identicle?" I'd say that the underlying product is the issue, not the badge. If anything about these "new" vans disturbs me, it's the fact that the product seems pretty far from "new." By the time the still-too-small Venture clones premier, Honda will have a new Odyssey on the market.

After the long wait, GM should have produced a genuinely "new" and competitively sized mini-van. Hopefully, GM will compensate for the meager dimensions (not to mention the what appears to be an increased ride height/higher center of gravity?) by offering standard Stabilitrak. I seriously doubt that is going to happen.

Isn't it amazing that GM can ante up $4.3 billion for Cadillac, but an extra $1 billion for a volume product that will sell through 4 divisions is a NO-CAN-DO?

 

General perpective "A", The Buick buyer:

~~ By purchasing a Buick, I generally want a luxury image... Since this Buick offerng looks identical to a Saturn, whose image is one of an entry-level kids-car, or dare I say "cheap"? Why would I buy a Terazza?


General perspective "B", The Saturn Buyer:

~~ By purchasing a Saturn, I generally want a youthful, hip image... Since this Saturn offering looks identical to the Buick, whose image is that of old fogies and waterbed like handling, Why would I want a Relay?

 

Before you get too excited, remember you're talking about Buick and Saturn. Between Tigers Woods, Harley Earl, and the return of the "port holes" on the Park Ave, I don't have the foggiest idea of where Buick is going. The same goes for Saturn, where the latest Ion commercial features clowns, lots of frantic clowns. Even Saab is the "fuzziest" of the European makes, with no obvious purpose except as an eccentric alternative to Volvo - assuming you just have to have a Swedish car.

The big question is whether a Relay or Terazza will be the best minivan in the segment? Can a 9-7 compete against "built-from-the-ground-up" luxury SUVs? If the Relay and Terazza are just spiffed up Ventures and the Saab 9-7 is just a Trailblazer at heart, what do you think? Forget the badge and consider the vehicles they put it on!

 

I agree.

And how will this ever change if they look the nearly identical?

At best, it makes the situation worse .

 

Assuming that Buick and Saturn has strong and well defined brand identities, the "look alike factor" might have mattered. As it is, Buick has better long-term prospects in China than the United States. Worse, Saturn is in limbo after the Ion. (Don't expect any more platic paneled Saturns, and even the Ion's "wierdness" is due to be toned down.) In the end, Buick and Saturn are just brands of GM, and not exactly the most covetable names in the business.

I think the major issue is whether the "new" vans can stand on their own merits? With aggressive pricing, upgraded build quality and generous standard equipment, they might just have a shot. If the product is older and smaller, I would expect it to be cheaper as well.

 

I'm not a potential mini van customer, so I'm not even going to pretend I know what minivan buyers demand.

BUT, Chrysler's redone 2005 minivans look just like the current one. Ford's new Freestar looks like the Windstar with an upgraded interior. Most of all the "import" minivans are essentially carryovers with redone interiors. At least GM put a front end that looks nothing like it's current minivans. And it seems GM is designing interiors that look great.

Is there anyone here that's actually going to go out and actually buy a minivan? If not, and noone else is putting bags of money on a new minivan structure, and there's nothing wrong with the vehicle, it's still selling, and people want them, what do we care that it's based on the old one. What do we care if GM, Ford, & Chrysler want to put money back in CARS!

Again, GM has alot of really amazing stuff coming up (providing General Motors doesn't have a melt down). There's a reason I posted those possibilites of future vehicles.

BTW: Here are some better pics:
http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_062244
http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_062241
http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_062239
http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_062229
http://wieck.com/public/*2PV_062220

 

The more I see the Buick the more I am starting too like it. Interior looks nice. The only downside is that it looks exactly like the Saturn and it will be hard to sell people on why they should spend more for the Buick, when it is the exact same van.

 

Call me Joe Minivan. I've got three kids and they've got lots of stuff and friends......did I mention the car pool?

There are NO vehicles other than mini vans, that have the packaging advantages of mini vans. NONE!

Wrap some good looking sheetmetal around all that non-truck utility.....AND I SWEAR TO YOU.........YOU WILL HAVE THE NEXT BLOCKBUSTER SEGMENT!!!!!!

Over the past few weeks I have become the reluctant 7 passenger SUV/Crossover vehicle expert (see my previous post).

Today we checked out the Dodge Durango (for the second time) and GMC Envoy.

Let me start with the Envoy. Compared to some others we've seen.....I find the Envoy sadly lacking. I've got all these GM points burning a hole in my pocket...I really, really, REALLY, wanted to like it. I was hoping that just maybe,.... some how, some way...I'd like it more than the Trailblazer.

Nope.

The quality of it's interior would look second rate....even if this were 1979. Frankly, it looked like it came from a third world country. The seams on the upholstery looked like they were made by my second grader in arts and crafts. The paint had specks of dirt under the clear coat. It's live rear axle felt crude compared to Explorer/Aviator/Mountaineer's IRS. The extended wheelbase version (remember, I'm looking for a third row)....just looks odd....sort of like a badly done stretched limo. Did I mention the MSRP was over 40 grand?

Durango:

The Dodge dealer let us take it home for the day. Beautiful interior....GM design should take a look at one. Good power from the HEMI. Lots of space. Lots of features for the price. I think Dodge has a winner! The only problem......IT IS ONE BIG HONKIN' TRUCK. I think my wife feels like a teamster driving it, it is going to be her car after all.

You know what I'd like? I'd like an Equinox with a third row seat.

Anyone ever think of that?

If we don't find something pretty soon....I'm afraid wifey is going to stick me with a Lexus GX 470 . Beautiful vehicle.....but lottsa cash.

 

take a look at the nissan murano. =)

 

The Murano is neat....but I need a third row.

 

That's exactly how I found Durango. It really does have a good interior, but it's also pretty d*mn big! Anyone expecting this to be simply a restyled version of the old Durango is in for a surprise.

You simply can't judge the size of it in picture. GTO has that problem too, but in it's case it's smaller than it looks in pictures.

 

I'm looking forward to checking out the production Ford Freestyle next month when it's revealed in Detroit.

Anyone know much about the upcomming Chevy Uplander? I get the feeling that it'll be yet another rehash of the uncompetitive Venture. The press releases make it sound good...... but then again the previous GM press releases made the Relay and Terreza sound like all new, revolutionary products.

What a disappointment.

 

Since the Uplander is being built on the same platform as the Relay/Terazza, my guess is the sheetmetal will be exactly like the photos in the first post except with a chrome spear grille.

 

What makes Venture so uncompetative?

A co-worker of mine has a Venture, and loves it. In fact, he originally had a 1997 Venture, and recently traded it in on a new 2003 Venture...

On course, 2 others at my office have newer Caravans, and my brother-in-law has a 2003 Windstar... they all seem to be happy as well... but none of the above dismissed Venture (or Montana/Silhouette as being inferior)