Pics...Buick Terreza & Saturn Relay
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,308
From: Calgary
Originally posted by HuJass
I just watched the GM webcast of the unveiling of the 2 vans.
Those pics that were posted here make them to look worse than they really are.
The front ends are still bad, but the rest of the vehicles are pretty nice (for a van). The rear 3/4 angle looks good. Lutz said they wanted to make it look more like an SUV rather than a minivan.
They are longer than the old vans. They feature the 3.5L HF V-6 at 200 hp. FWD is standard. AWD is optional. All the sheet metal is new as is a lot of the structure. They have 17" wheels & tires and are a bit taller than the old ones. They include IRS.
The interiors are the biggest surprise. They looked really nice. Especiallly the Buick's. Very European in looks. Lotsa features including an overhead console system on rails (like the F-150). The rear seats fold flat on the floor. The middle seats also fold down.
I think GM is gonna have a winner here.
I just watched the GM webcast of the unveiling of the 2 vans.
Those pics that were posted here make them to look worse than they really are.
The front ends are still bad, but the rest of the vehicles are pretty nice (for a van). The rear 3/4 angle looks good. Lutz said they wanted to make it look more like an SUV rather than a minivan.
They are longer than the old vans. They feature the 3.5L HF V-6 at 200 hp. FWD is standard. AWD is optional. All the sheet metal is new as is a lot of the structure. They have 17" wheels & tires and are a bit taller than the old ones. They include IRS.
The interiors are the biggest surprise. They looked really nice. Especiallly the Buick's. Very European in looks. Lotsa features including an overhead console system on rails (like the F-150). The rear seats fold flat on the floor. The middle seats also fold down.
I think GM is gonna have a winner here.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Joe K. 96 Zeee!!
Check this out:
http://www.buick.com/terraza/virtual/
After seeing this I'm feeling a little better about the designs....
Check this out:
http://www.buick.com/terraza/virtual/
After seeing this I'm feeling a little better about the designs....
Hmmm... steering wheel is straight out of the 04 Grand Prix....
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,224
From: CNY
I meant HV. I was thinking HV but my fingers must've been thinking HF.
And somebody in the audience asked about the difference in hp. Some GM guy stood up as said that basically "we looked at the competition and we feel this motor meets the needs of the intended customer". I was thinking "what a canned response that was".
Shouldn't it be more than about just meeting needs? Shouldn't it be about blowing them out of the water?
And somebody in the audience asked about the difference in hp. Some GM guy stood up as said that basically "we looked at the competition and we feel this motor meets the needs of the intended customer". I was thinking "what a canned response that was".
Shouldn't it be more than about just meeting needs? Shouldn't it be about blowing them out of the water?
ALMIGHTY MEMBER
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,298
From: Detroit, MI USA
uhmmmm.....can I ask a couple of questions???
First....how many of you have a mini-van on your shopping list?
Second.....if not, do you believe that you know what those buyers want?
Third......knowing that there's only so much money that GM/Ford/DCX has to spend on new products, would you rather that they do a complete 'fresh sheet of paper' mini-van/crossover vehicle.........and spend well over a billion dollars.......OR......would you rather them do what they've done.....and have some more money for the kickass stuff that GuionM just posted? (killer engines, new RWD performance cars.......etc???)
Just thought I'd ask the question.........................
First....how many of you have a mini-van on your shopping list?
Second.....if not, do you believe that you know what those buyers want?
Third......knowing that there's only so much money that GM/Ford/DCX has to spend on new products, would you rather that they do a complete 'fresh sheet of paper' mini-van/crossover vehicle.........and spend well over a billion dollars.......OR......would you rather them do what they've done.....and have some more money for the kickass stuff that GuionM just posted? (killer engines, new RWD performance cars.......etc???)
Just thought I'd ask the question.........................
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 1,873
From: South Jersey
Originally posted by Red Planet
uhmmmm.....can I ask a couple of questions???
First....how many of you have a mini-van on your shopping list?
Second.....if not, do you believe that you know what those buyers want?
Third......knowing that there's only so much money that GM/Ford/DCX has to spend on new products, would you rather that they do a complete 'fresh sheet of paper' mini-van/crossover vehicle.........and spend well over a billion dollars.......OR......would you rather them do what they've done.....and have some more money for the kickass stuff that GuionM just posted? (killer engines, new RWD performance cars.......etc???)
Just thought I'd ask the question.........................
uhmmmm.....can I ask a couple of questions???
First....how many of you have a mini-van on your shopping list?
Second.....if not, do you believe that you know what those buyers want?
Third......knowing that there's only so much money that GM/Ford/DCX has to spend on new products, would you rather that they do a complete 'fresh sheet of paper' mini-van/crossover vehicle.........and spend well over a billion dollars.......OR......would you rather them do what they've done.....and have some more money for the kickass stuff that GuionM just posted? (killer engines, new RWD performance cars.......etc???)
Just thought I'd ask the question.........................
I can't even think of why these minivans are even needed. Buick will be the only luxury brand with a minivan and the saturn will just end up competing with the Chevy minivan.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
More models = more sales = more profits.
Saturn needs the van, sales have been down lately. I imagine Saturn dealers have been asking for more models.
It's just too bad there is a lot of "badge engineering" going on.
THere are some good pics over at http://www.gminsidenews.com and Thecarconnection and here (buick only) and here (Saturn pics) and here (more on the Saturn)
Saturn needs the van, sales have been down lately. I imagine Saturn dealers have been asking for more models.
It's just too bad there is a lot of "badge engineering" going on.
THere are some good pics over at http://www.gminsidenews.com and Thecarconnection and here (buick only) and here (Saturn pics) and here (more on the Saturn)
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by Red Planet
uhmmmm.....can I ask a couple of questions???
First....how many of you have a mini-van on your shopping list?
Second.....if not, do you believe that you know what those buyers want?
Third......knowing that there's only so much money that GM/Ford/DCX has to spend on new products, would you rather that they do a complete 'fresh sheet of paper' mini-van/crossover vehicle.........and spend well over a billion dollars.......OR......would you rather them do what they've done.....and have some more money for the kickass stuff that GuionM just posted? (killer engines, new RWD performance cars.......etc???)
Just thought I'd ask the question.........................
uhmmmm.....can I ask a couple of questions???
First....how many of you have a mini-van on your shopping list?
Second.....if not, do you believe that you know what those buyers want?
Third......knowing that there's only so much money that GM/Ford/DCX has to spend on new products, would you rather that they do a complete 'fresh sheet of paper' mini-van/crossover vehicle.........and spend well over a billion dollars.......OR......would you rather them do what they've done.....and have some more money for the kickass stuff that GuionM just posted? (killer engines, new RWD performance cars.......etc???)
Just thought I'd ask the question.........................
If this is done... then yes...
If this is a precursor to another round of "grille and badge" styling, then no...
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,712
From: Ontario
Originally posted by Z28x
More models = more sales = more profits.
More models = more sales = more profits.
As to the basic equation, "More models = more sales = more profits", Honda, Ford, and Toyota all manage to outsell all three GM minivans combined, and I'll bet you at least Honda and Toyota are making money on minivans. GM is not.
The real equation should be "more models = more cost = less engineering $ = inferior product = diminishing sales". GM's answer? Let's make even more models, then!
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
Originally posted by R377
This is the problem that GM got into in the 80s. All their car families were virtually identical: X cars, J cars, A cars, N cars, C cars, H cars. It was so blatantly obvious that only a badge separated a Chev from a Buick. Why spend the marketing money trying to differentiate 4 identical cars when that money could be better spent improving the vehicle itself?
As to the basic equation, "More models = more sales = more profits", Honda, Ford, and Toyota all manage to outsell all three GM minivans combined, and I'll bet you at least Honda and Toyota are making money on minivans. GM is not.
The real equation should be "more models = more cost = less engineering $ = inferior product = diminishing sales". GM's answer? Let's make even more models, then!
This is the problem that GM got into in the 80s. All their car families were virtually identical: X cars, J cars, A cars, N cars, C cars, H cars. It was so blatantly obvious that only a badge separated a Chev from a Buick. Why spend the marketing money trying to differentiate 4 identical cars when that money could be better spent improving the vehicle itself?
As to the basic equation, "More models = more sales = more profits", Honda, Ford, and Toyota all manage to outsell all three GM minivans combined, and I'll bet you at least Honda and Toyota are making money on minivans. GM is not.
The real equation should be "more models = more cost = less engineering $ = inferior product = diminishing sales". GM's answer? Let's make even more models, then!
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,597
From: oshawa,ontario,canada
Originally posted by Z28x
True for the manufactorer, but not for the dealers. If Saturn never got an SUV then dealers would have missed out on 100,000 sales a year.
True for the manufactorer, but not for the dealers. If Saturn never got an SUV then dealers would have missed out on 100,000 sales a year.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,176
From: Chicagoland IL
Originally posted by Red Planet
uhmmmm.....can I ask a couple of questions???
First....how many of you have a mini-van on your shopping list?
Second.....if not, do you believe that you know what those buyers want?
Third......knowing that there's only so much money that GM/Ford/DCX has to spend on new products, would you rather that they do a complete 'fresh sheet of paper' mini-van/crossover vehicle.........and spend well over a billion dollars.......OR......would you rather them do what they've done.....and have some more money for the kickass stuff that GuionM just posted? (killer engines, new RWD performance cars.......etc???)
Just thought I'd ask the question.........................
uhmmmm.....can I ask a couple of questions???
First....how many of you have a mini-van on your shopping list?
Second.....if not, do you believe that you know what those buyers want?
Third......knowing that there's only so much money that GM/Ford/DCX has to spend on new products, would you rather that they do a complete 'fresh sheet of paper' mini-van/crossover vehicle.........and spend well over a billion dollars.......OR......would you rather them do what they've done.....and have some more money for the kickass stuff that GuionM just posted? (killer engines, new RWD performance cars.......etc???)
Just thought I'd ask the question.........................
If you're looking for 7 passenger seating, lot's of room and utility, nice ride and drive....a mini-van sure beats a 6500 lbs, 12mpg, $40,000 truck...all IMO of course. If you're looking for sliding doors ( both for their utility AND MORE IMPORTANTLY....so your kids don't ding your Camaro parked next to it in the garage), mini-vans are your only choice.
They drive and handle so exponentially better than trucks too.
The problem is that some people percieve mini-vans as "uncool". Those people include my wife, who doesn't want another mini-van. We are currently vehicle shopping and I wouldn't mind another mini-van.....wifey wants more panache however.
Out of all the vehicles we've seen, the Chrysler Pacifica comes closest to satisfying both of us.........if it only had just alittle more room, I'd own one right now.
So to answer your question RP......
Priority #1:
Build me the 5th gen Z/28 of my dreams.
Priority #2:
If GM made a 7 passenger vehicle, with the utility of a mini-van...but not the stigma, stylish sheetmetal and interior, driving dynamics comparable to a car.... rather than a truck, MPG substantially north of low-teens and cost $30-$35K....I would already own one and finally have something to dump my GM points on.
Last edited by Z284ever; Dec 7, 2003 at 04:33 PM.