Ummmm, lets see, thats what we call different gearing.

 

It's funny when people bring up hp per liter since it's an arbitrary ratio based on variables that don't really matter. A much better ratio would be hp per engine weight or hp per engine physical size.
Hp per liter is a ricer calculation because you could have a 1000lb engine that makes 500hp out of 1.0L, but it's not going to perform as well as an engine that makes 475hp and only weighs 500lbs once they're both put in a car.
The other fact that people forget is that the 32V 4.6 really isn't even the king of hp per liter. The most Ford ever got out of the 4.6l NA was 320hp. GM gets 405hp out of 5.7L, running the numbers that gives the Ford 4.6 69.56hp per liter and the GM 5.7 71.05hp per liter. Not to mention the LS1-6 engines are physically smaller and also lighter. Given those figures it's easy to see the LS1-6 engines are actually a lot more efficient at making hp for a given engine packaging size and weight.

 

As far as the Hp/L argument...

An ant can lift 1000 times its body weight. Can I? Hell no, not even close. But I step on them every day.

 

Most people don't use the HP/L argument correctly. What most ricers compare is peak HP/L which doesn't tell anything. If you want to compare two engines based on HP/L you have to do it at the same RPM.

The best way to compare two engines is by the torque curve.

 

But Texas is really nice this time of the year Plus, we have cheap 93 octane, you could fill up your GTO and blaze the tires before going back to California, the land of expensive 91.

X-plan is what you get if the company you work for has a deal with Ford. It's employees are able to buy Ford cars for about invoice. Mach 1's at invoice - $3000 is a good deal! BTW, I had a 93 T-Bird. Loved it, paid it off and gave it to my parents. Still running strong at 250,000 miles.

 

For someone calling names you just made yourself look pretty stupid IMO. If you'd ever actually raced one of these cars you'd know you don't get past 4th gear in the 1/4 mile anyway....how many overdrives you have is irrelevant. Besides the aforementioned gearing advantage the Ford has, which is why we are comparing ENGINES, not chassis/engine combos.

 

Oh, one more thing...

Apparently the GTO bumps up to the LS2 next year, which means the Mach 1 will getting laid out flat by the GTO... and yet again a dinosaur OHV GM V8 comes out on top.

What a bummer the F-car had to die. An LS2 SS based off of GMX-320 and packing 400hp would have been such a beautiful thing.

Oh, the latest 2 for 1 comparo in Motor Trend was a riot too...

 

The current 200hp 3.5 liter unit is very competitive with Kia/Hyundai, but with nobody else. I remain skeptical of the upcoming 240hp and supercharged versions, if only because the pricing is shaping up to be pretty rediculous.

If the 3.5 liter G6 is going to $25K, the high end units will be up in G35 territory.

1. The Altima isn't a luxury car - hence the "GM levels" of refinement and interior finish. (The 2005 Altima V6 gains another notch in value; all Altimas get a revised interior.) This car isn't a Lexus, but neither is any current (or near future) FWD GM product. In any case, I kinda like the engine note of a VQ motor.

Try finding any hearing individual that digs on the exhaust note of a "High Value" V6.

2. The Tribute/Escape are some of the crudest of the small utes and the current Duratec V6 isn't exactly "world class" in any application.

I don't doubt that your GP sounds smoother because the 3800 is a perfectly adequate motor in everyday driving. However, if you drove your Pontiac as hard as I drove my last 3800 equipped rental car...

 

I guess nobody at GM has noticed the Infiniti G35 yet?

Between the new Synthetic leather seating and the undersized motor, Cadillac is gunning for the outgoing 325i - or perhaps the last generation Audi A4. They should choose their benchmarks more wisely.

 

Having said that, I still am seriously fighting the urge to rush down to my Ford dealer to pick up one of those engineeringly inefficient, Mustang Mach 1s that Ford has slashed down to just $25,000... vroom vroom! [/B][/QUOTE]





LOL,not a bad car,fun to drive and I love the shaker.A few quality issues,but a cool car overall.By the way I got mine for $25,000 OTD.

 

The 240HP 3.9L won't cost anymore to build than the 3.5L. There will also be a 3v 3.9L putting out 270HP which will still be chaeper to build than a DOHC engine.

Do you have a link for that G6 pricing? I didn't think they anounced pricing yet.

What does the Altimas Interior have to due with OHC engines? You are also now admiting that not all OHC engines are "world class" . I never said pushrod V6s are the greatest engines ever built, but the GM ones are very good, and excelent for the money. You make it sound like GM is using old 1950's tractor engines. The HV V6s aren't meant to go head to head with engines in $50K BMWs and Mercedes, that is what the HF are for. HV are good solid lower cost engines for the mainstream market.

I havn't really heard a HV yet, but the old 60° 3.4L V8 that used to be in the Camaros sounds great with a borla. (a lot better than the 3800 Camaros)

 

yup. You're right there. But a strong Mach1 still runs the exact same times as a strong LS1 F-bod with 40 less hp at equal weight and with worse aero.

What's the practical implication? There's little to no difference in performance in the motors. The 4.6DOHC makes power out close to 6700 where the LS1 fall on it's face past 6200. The gain-bandwidth ie. area under the hp curve of both motors is the same.

 

LS2 + GTO = BADA$$! I seriously cant wait for next year's GTO, it should shutup all the GTO bashers with its styling enhancements and of course, a hella lot more power. And I did see that comparo, a GTO vs an AMG SLK something or other. Needless to say, the GTO held its own perfectly fine against a car that costed more than twice as much.

And hp_nut, its been beaten to death, the Mach's gearing makes up for its 40hp disadvantage against an LS1 equipped Camaro, thus explaining why it runs similar times. I'm sorry but numbers dont lie, an LS1 making 350hp IS gonna be stronger than a 4.6 making around 300hp. Fifty horsepower is quite a difference! And your rpm comparisons are funny, we're talking a difference of 500 measily RPM's here! Not trying to flame you just trying to sort through your arguments.

 

Pacer, I am behind you 100%.

PaperTarget: you sir are an asshat. Print this thread out and read it a few more times. Hopefully you'll figure it out.


hp_nut: Riiight.

 

You can go screw yourself. All I asked for was objective comparisons. I explained that well enough. Now, go sit on an egg and rotate.