The shortstar is a 90* V6 based off the Northstar( 90* V8)

The Northstar has similar bore and stroke as the 3.4 DOHC but the 3.4 DOHC, LQ1, is a 60* V6.

Chances are that the Northstar is based on the LQ1 but we have no way of knowing that for sure.

 

I guess it all comes down to what you mean by "based on". To me, it means that one engine is a direct derivative and therefore inherits its major defining characteristics from the other engine. This includes such things as vee angle, bore spacing, crankshaft location, etc. Using this definition, the 3.4, 3.4 TDC, and 3.1 are all "based on" the X-car 2.8. The 3.5 V6 and 4.0 V8 are based on the Northstar.

Although the Northstar's design may have been influenced by the designers' experiences with the TDC and Quad4, I do not consider them related to the Northstar. Similarly, the HF 3.6 V6 is also a new design that is not "based on" any existing engines.

 

My wife has a Intrique with the 3.5, its a nice running car. I believe it could be slightly underrated at 215hp it feels more like around 230-240hp. Though it doesn't have the torque of the Buick 3.8, it makes good power above 3k rpm.

 

I'm probably wrong, but I'd bet the Northstar is based off the Quad4. Think DOHC 2.3L 150hp 4 cylinder times 2 equals DOHC 4.6L 300hp V8...

 

"Think DOHC 2.3L 150hp 4 cylinder times 2 equals DOHC 4.6L 300hp V8..."

This is where I got some of my initial theories of the evolution of these motors. One supporting point is that a Quad 4 can use pre-00 Northstar springs with little or no modification!

 

I thought that the 3.5 DOHC V6 was a nice engine; definitely competitive with the previous-generation Accord V6. Never have seen a good reason why GM dumped all this money into creating a world-class V6 (it even made Ward's 10 Best list one year) and is now ditching in favor of, what, a half-dozen or so new V6s? Yet another headshaker from the General.

 

Well maybe the reason is that the new 3.6 and the others are better than the 3.5 that it replaces. We don't really know yet because it hasn't really been released yet.

 

I tend to put little faith in these 3rd party rankings like Ward's 10 best engines (or JD Power for that matter). It seems like there's always at least one engine from every major manufacturer on Ward's list. I'm not normally one to be cynical about car magazines' obejectivity, but in the case of the 3.5 making the list it wouldn't surprise me one bit if GM paid to get on that list.

 

I sent Ward's some serious hate-mail last year about their rankings.

Ward's collects up the cars, hits the websites and downloads commonly available information and then lets a bunch of amateurs gush on about nothing.

I can do all of this myself.

The stuff I can't do myself - like CHASSIS DYNO THEM ALL, or give us the all-up weight of each motor, or talk about brak-specific fuel consumption, or find out about the heart and soul of the engine management sensors, etc... they are too LAZY to do.

Honestly, I'd like to see a REAL comparision of motors someday, it'll knock the shine off of BMW's engines faster than you can say "Sieg Heil!". Honda's 4 cylinders will be relegated to the scrapheap where they belong.

 

You can get the "olds 3.5" in 220/240 - 270/300 and 400/400 hp/tq in a 1600-1800 pound turn key space frame car that pulls 1.08g on the skid pad. Its called the Mullen M11. The engine has potenial GM just never used it. The Mullen uses the motor "inline" with a 5spd Porsce transaxle. Its a goofy looking car.

 

Interesting facts on why the 3.5 died after 2002...it wasn't even available for '03...

1) Emissions. GM did a horrid job making this engine stand up to emissions regs. It would have needed to be re-worked for '03 to keep going...whereas the 3800 is inherently clean. I have no idea how/why...this came directly from a GM rep.

2) Volume. Every GM division was supposed to get it to replace the 3800. Obviously, this never happened. Olds paid for much of the R&D, then when the other divisions looked at the bottom line for this all-alloy, 24 valve, 4 cam wonder versus their old iron 3800 that only made 15 hp less, they said no thanks. This engine was primarily used in the Intrigue. The Intrigue died. So did the motor...lack of volume.

Through my 3 years working at an Olds/Pontiac dealer (my stint ends this week...), I have driven dozens of 3.5s. They are, in a word, fantastic. Smoother than any 3800 ever thought of being, extremely quick and quiet, and overall a more impressive engine. I question future oil leakage issues with these, however. Seeing as how they are a Northstar, and every Northstar known to man eventually leaks from the bottom end, will the 3.5 suffer the same fate?

I welcome the new 260hp 3.6 however...should make a great '07 Camaro base motor

 

I'm kinda curious where you're going to find a I4 to knock off Honda's H22. Good luck on that one. Should be interesting to see the LS6 spank the M5's engine, though

Thanks much to Jason E for giving the first decent info I've seen on the demise of the 3.5 L V6. Point #2 was obvious to me, but I never knew there was an emissions problem. Probably due to the 4-valve head and lack of variable valve timing, I'm guessing (Honda does some real clever stuff with VTEC on the intake side of their V6s to clean them up).

I really liked the 3.5 L when I drove Intrigues; it was one of the reasons I liked this car so much better than the other W-bodies. Sure, I'd rather have seen a pushrod V6 that was the equivalent of a GenIII V8, but the 3.5 L was an engine that seemed to match up quite nicely with the best of the import competition, and royally spanked anything from the other domestic guys.

 

I'm not entirely sure why it is to this point, GM has had a problem with their 4 valve V6 engines having issues with emissions. The 3.4 Twin Dual Cam died the same fate for the same reason. That motor simply would NOT pass federal emissions for '97 or '98 (whatever year they put the 3800 in the MC SS)...

Its too bad, because as far as I can see, the 3.5 should have replaced the 3800...it may not carry the legendary reliability record, but it IS, without a doubt, the more refined, more powerful engine. GM should have forced the other divisions to take it...its a shame they did not.

I like the 3800, but I will not miss it when it dies...to me it has been refined past its retirement date. I look forward to the new-gen 24 valve V6s.

And in a way, I'm glad to see the old 60 degree motors soldiering on, for no other reason than the fact I have owned 3 ('89 Camaro 2.8, '95 Grand Am 3100, '02 Grand Am 3400), and I sorta have a soft spot in my heart for them

 

Where are ya headed now Jase?

 

Intersting, check it out!
http://mullenmotorco.com