The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
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From: The Golden State
Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Originally Posted by 96_Camaro_B4C
Actually, the base engine in the Grand Cherokee is the 3.7L V6 from the Liberty. It has almost the exact same output as the 3.5L I5 in the Hummer...
The Grand Cherokee Laredo 4WD does have a 3.7 V6. This base Jeep is by no means a performance model (like some others here are assuming I'd advocating simply because I'm calling the decision to go with the I5 classic boneheaded General Motors "old-think"
However, the 3.7 V6 powered Jeep puts out 235 lbs/ft of torque and weighs 3916 lbs.
The H3's one-cylinder-more-than-4, besides coming up a piston & 15 lbs/ft of torque short, also has to lug around an extra 850+ pounds of weight!
I'm not advocating a hot-rod H3. I'm advocating an H3 that is capable of accelerating out of it's own way. For the price, it's not too much to ask for, and I shouldn't have to pay for this as 'some option down the road'.
I really liked it at the auto show, What a shame.
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From: Jupiter, FL
Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
When I got the chance to drive both the auto and manual for 30mi ea in the city and hwy, I was excited because it would be a good comparison to my truck. Damn, that thing is a dog. :blah:
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From: Pewee Valley, KY
Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Here is a question I have seen nobody pose: Why was H3 built on the GMT355 frame instead of GMT360? GMT 355 is for pickups primarily, right? GMT 360 is for SUVs. Why go through the trouble of making one 355 SUV when 360 is right there and it can use the 275 hp/275 tq 4.2 I6 or 5.3 DOD? It has NEVER made sense to me to do this.
Should we be expecting to see 1 or 2 more GMT 355 SUVs? If not I need someone to explain this one to me.
Should we be expecting to see 1 or 2 more GMT 355 SUVs? If not I need someone to explain this one to me.
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Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Originally Posted by guionM
Here's how I see it.
HUMMER is a high end off-road brand. Any division who's vehicles cost from 40+ large, all the way up to over 100 grand isn't the same brand that would attract Jeepsters.
Because HUMMER is a high end brand, charging high end prices (the H3 isn't starting at the same price as a entry level Cherokee), it's going to be measured by a different yardstick than a $20,000 Jeep.
If we were talking about a heavy duty Chevrolet with a low base price, I'd probally sit down and shut myself up by now. But I believe this is another instance of a good product being lost in translation. A great idea comes up, engineers do up what they think the vehicle should be, and somewhere between there and production, it gets neutered.
I haven't heard anything about someone cutting corners on material quality or assembly short cuts just yet, so maybe I should be happy for small miracles.
HUMMER is a high end off-road brand. Any division who's vehicles cost from 40+ large, all the way up to over 100 grand isn't the same brand that would attract Jeepsters.
Because HUMMER is a high end brand, charging high end prices (the H3 isn't starting at the same price as a entry level Cherokee), it's going to be measured by a different yardstick than a $20,000 Jeep.
If we were talking about a heavy duty Chevrolet with a low base price, I'd probally sit down and shut myself up by now. But I believe this is another instance of a good product being lost in translation. A great idea comes up, engineers do up what they think the vehicle should be, and somewhere between there and production, it gets neutered.
I haven't heard anything about someone cutting corners on material quality or assembly short cuts just yet, so maybe I should be happy for small miracles.
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From: Ohio
Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Originally Posted by falchulk
The Liberty is not 20k. 25 to 28k. And its down market to the H3. 30k vehicles today are what 20k vehicles were 5 years ago. You dont expect luxury or high end at 30k. If you get it, great but dont expect it.
Liberty's MSRP, before any rebate.... starts at $20,140.
http://www.jeep.com/liberty/
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Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Originally Posted by Darth Xed
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From: Ohio
Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Originally Posted by falchulk
We are comparing v6 to I5. When I say base model, I am not talking about model variations. I am talikng hummer has only 3 models. The h3 = base, h2 = mid h1 = high end. A similarly equiped liberty does not cost 20k.
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From: Chattanoga & Franklin
Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Originally Posted by 91_z28_4me
Here is a question I have seen nobody pose: Why was H3 built on the GMT355 frame instead of GMT360? GMT 355 is for pickups primarily, right? GMT 360 is for SUVs. Why go through the trouble of making one 355 SUV when 360 is right there and it can use the 275 hp/275 tq 4.2 I6 or 5.3 DOD? It has NEVER made sense to me to do this.
Should we be expecting to see 1 or 2 more GMT 355 SUVs? If not I need someone to explain this one to me.
Should we be expecting to see 1 or 2 more GMT 355 SUVs? If not I need someone to explain this one to me.
I bet the reason they built it on the GMT355 is that they had overcapacity at that plant. Another thing to consider is that they don't have any capacity at the GMT360 plants.
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From: Pewee Valley, KY
Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Originally Posted by AronZ28
I bet the reason they built it on the GMT355 is that they had overcapacity at that plant. Another thing to consider is that they don't have any capacity at the GMT360 plants.
Scott who is the nearest person like you within Hummer?
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From: Pewee Valley, KY
Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Originally Posted by Z28x
Is the 4.8L V8 still going to be cancelled? This would make a great Colorado and H3 engine.
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Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
I might be missing something but, who the hell would buy a "base" Hummer? I put it to you that a base-engined Hummer model (at least to this extreme) is a pointless vehicle when GM already has too many of those. "powerful" and "more powerful" make sense as Hummer engine options, but "adequate" and "better than adequate" do not.
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Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
I don't see how some of you could continue to argue with Guy on this, he's completely right. This thing weighs almost two and a half freakin tons! It's motivated by an engine with similar output to the 3.5 OHV in the Chevy Uplander that has been described as underpowered in that application. The Chevy Uplander weighs 4400lbs, 300 pounds less than the H3. GM must have gotten the message now as they are introducing the 3.9L into that line of vehicles. They bungled that launch and are now bungling this launch, just as they are virtually bungling every launch by trying to pinch pennies on everything. When will get a no-excuse vehicle?? You know, the kind where I can feel fully satisfied??
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Re: The old GM comes through & screws up a perfectly good vehicle...yet again!
Originally Posted by turbo200
I don't see how some of you could continue to argue with Guy on this, he's completely right. This thing weighs almost two and a half freakin tons! It's motivated by an engine with similar output to the 3.5 OHV in the Chevy Uplander that has been described as underpowered in that application. The Chevy Uplander weighs 4400lbs, 300 pounds less than the H3. GM must have gotten the message now as they are introducing the 3.9L into that line of vehicles. They bungled that launch and are now bungling this launch, just as they are virtually bungling every launch by trying to pinch pennies on everything. When will get a no-excuse vehicle?? You know, the kind where I can feel fully satisfied??
