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On / Off Skip Shift Button

Old Dec 5, 2009 | 11:06 PM
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On / Off Skip Shift Button

So I just got finished arguing with a Ford buddy of mine about the Skip Shift. It was a intresting arguement and I feel it'll probobly come up again so I just wanted to know if any of you have some facts.

My buddy claimed that the upcoming 5.0 Mustang WILL have Skip Shift, since it will be just shy of Gas Guzzler standards. However he told me something intresting he claimed it will have a On & Off button similar to a traction controll on/off button on a car. SAE claimed that as long as the car starts with the skip shift on, it can give them higher gas mileage rating. Even though the driver can turn it off.

Now, I'm not absolutly postive, but I think if thats true, the new 5.0 Mustang will be the first Ford with Skip Shift. GM has used the application in a couple of vehicles in the past 5 years. So I was wondering, is there any chance GM will go this route, I think the on / off button would save alot of complaining from people who don't know about the skip shift until after they get the car.
Old Dec 5, 2009 | 11:19 PM
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I don't see how that'd make any sense.
Old Dec 5, 2009 | 11:23 PM
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i dotn see how having it makes any sense in the first place. !!
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by DAKMOR
i dotn see how having it makes any sense in the first place. !!
Agreed. If I had a car with this that would be the first thing to get disabled.
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 01:56 AM
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SAE has no bearing on the EPA's gas ratings....
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 05:26 AM
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It could make for an interesting argument. According to the following C&D article, such optional features are somewhat negotiable with the EPA, and since it would start in "off" mode, Ford might have a pretty good chance. When you think of it, it's kind of similar to automatic transmission sport modes always starting "off" mode. Although I have to wonder if GM didn't actually try it and was turned down.

The recent proliferation of things such as paddle shifters, various transmission modes, and more-responsive sport settings has made for interesting back-and-forth negotiations between the automakers and the EPA when it comes to the particulars of vehicle testing.
For emissions purposes, cars are certified in groups arranged by similar characteristics (engine, transmission, etc.), and the model or trim level with the highest emissions must be tested by the automaker. There’s no wiggle room. This version is generally the heaviest or has the most aerodynamic drag, and that vehicle is tested in any driver-selectable mode, such as a transmission sport mode, that would worsen emissions. But for fuel-economy purposes, many things are up for discussion; it’s the automaker’s task to convince the EPA how the cars are likely to be driven in consumers’ hands.

The EPA’s Wehrly describes a hypothetical, but typical, discussion where an automaker wants to get around activating a particular feature that degrades fuel economy during the testing. Luxury automaker: “We have this feature, but no one uses it.” EPA: “Then why do you have it?” Automaker: “Because Mercedes has it. If we don’t have it, it looks bad.”


We thought the powerful BMW M5 starts up using “just” 400 horsepower to save fuel (the driver can push a button to get the full 500 horsepower). But most gimmicky buttons are just that: The EPA tested the M5 in both 400- and 500-hp modes and found no difference in the amount of fuel used. The demands of the test cycles never call upon all the M5’s horses anyway. And the Honda Insight’s econ mode—activated by a dash button and claimed to improve fuel economy—registered no effect, either. It relaxes throttle response, so the test driver simply compensates with additional throttle to achieve the required speeds. However, GM’s skip-shift device, found in the Corvette among others, irritates by forcing the driver to shift the manual transmission from first gear to fourth at low speeds and was developed precisely to improve fuel economy on the test cycles. It was approved by the EPA, i.e., not considered cheating. As this is written, Porsche is in negotiations to report fuel economy with the Panamera’s standard, mileage-enhancing stop-start system in place, which switches off the engine as the car stops, then refires it in a flash the moment the driver’s foot releases the brake. (Surprisingly, the sports-car specialist will have the first nonhybrid start-stop system in the U.S.) But the EPA’s likely counterargument to Porsche using the higher numbers is that with the imported car, the system has to be manually switched back on each time the car is started (the opposite of European Panameras), which means drivers will likely forget to activate the system and let the engine continue to idle at stops. Porsche wouldn’t say how much of a fuel-economy boost the system provides, but 18 percent of the EPA city cycle is spent idling, where the Panamera could be saving fuel with its engine switched off.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...timates_page_3
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 08:47 AM
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That just sounds terrible for an engine, shutting it off every time you stop. Hypermiling a Porsche, that's a fail

Didn't the Terminator Cobras also have skip shift on them?
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 09:07 AM
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I had an 04 Cobra....they did not have skip shift.
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 09:35 AM
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the porsche thing just screams dead engine. just think of all the people who crawl at red lights, 3 or so feet a ta time. wouldnt that re-activate and then kill it?

it must be one of those really cool engineering ideas that doesnt work out in the real world.
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 10:15 AM
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Star/Stop is a technology that is being heavily persued by ALL the automakers.
Hybrids do it, and I belive that Mazda is working on a system that will stop the engine at an exact position every time.
Huge gas milage jump if this happens, and if Porsche can bring it first...outstanding.
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 01:19 PM
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I don't see the feds allowing the defeat of a feature that is key to hitting mileage numbers. CAGS is only an issue if you drive lightfooted and try to short shift.
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 02:22 PM
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wouldn't start/stop accelerate the wear on your engine? most engine wear occurs at startup does it not? i'd rather just use a little bit more gas and continue to run my engine for another 100k miles
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jmsjags
wouldn't start/stop accelerate the wear on your engine? most engine wear occurs at startup does it not? i'd rather just use a little bit more gas and continue to run my engine for another 100k miles
If the engine is designed with Stop/Start in mind it can be better setup to handle it.

Doing stop/start with your normal car would be more likely to cause issues since it wasn't made with such an action in mind.
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 03:20 PM
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I must of explained this poorly in my first post. The On / Off Skip Shift is MANUALLY controlled by the driver. The car starts with it ON, and there is a button that allows you to turn it off. The car will not do it automatically.
Old Dec 6, 2009 | 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jmsjags
wouldn't start/stop accelerate the wear on your engine? most engine wear occurs at startup does it not? i'd rather just use a little bit more gas and continue to run my engine for another 100k miles
Kinda of. COLD starts are what really causes the most wear on an engine (and really short trips where you shut it back off before it even warms up) because of the "dry start" where the engine is cold and the engine isn't properly lubricated yet. Starting/stopping the eninge while it's at operating temperature doesn't really hurt it, what it will wear out is the starter, or whatever the hybrid systems are using to start/stop the engine so often. I can see it wearing the engine faster, but when taken care of the majority of today's engines last a really long time.

I don't like skip shift features, I just don't like being told what to do I like manuals because I'm the one in control! I even get a little pissed that my S-10 has the stupid arrow that tells me to up shift. Yes, little yellow arrow, you may think it's a good idea to shift into 5th going up a hill at 45mph, but I happen to disagree...

Last edited by Silverado C-10; Dec 6, 2009 at 06:20 PM.

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