Fbodfather

After I left this site a few months back, I got many emails asking why I left and if I would not reconsider returning.

I think the world of Jason Debler...and a few other people on this board....and thus, I felt I'd come back on and lurk.

I've decided to post now and then.

Since then, I've gotten even more emails...most thanking me for my perspectives,...(and of course, I also receive the occasional rogue email now and then asking me to take a long walk on a short dock....)

(or worse..........)

I just responded to the most recent PM.....Lee sent me a note saying among other things "I'm a nobody on this site, but I'm glad you're back and I appreciate your comments."

So...I'm going to share with you the letter I sent back to him:

QUOTE:

Good evening, Lee, and thank you for taking the time to write to me. (by the way, I don't consider any of my fellow enthusiasts a 'nobody!')

I try to contribute by educating and giving perspective...and I guess that's my first mistake.

I think most on this site want GM to succeed...that said, I think there are a few out there that cannot wait for GM to fold. (and of course, they don't realize the consequences that has for the economy.)

It is rough for me in the sense that I know this business and I know we have some very talented people within GM. (we also have a few fools as well)

The problem is that it's very easy to sit at a keyboard and burst forth with 'wisdom' when you have no stake in the outcome. Moreover, many people 'think' they know how to fix GM, but trust me, the best minds in the world are baffled as to how to fix GM, Ford, the economy, etc.

I simply ask for fairness. I don't expect anyone to 'cowtow' to me or GM..however, I insist that people get their facts straight...and that they use some common courtesy. When they don't I'm taking them on.

As to how long I'll last? That remains to be seen. I think the world of Jason Debler, that's why I'm back. That said, there are literally hundreds of sites out there...most with intelligent people with a sense of fairness and decorum....so we shall see.

Anyway...I truly appreciate your kind words and it's great to know that there are more that appreciate my appearance on the site than not.

Keep the faith! the future looks brighter every day for the car we all love.


Scott

UNQUOTE......

I meant every word I typed.

I'm more and more concerned at the tone this site takes daily....there are thousands upon thousands of people within the Camaro/Firebird Community that have worked very hard for over 35 years to make this a true community. (please read my post 'how the Camaro got its name)

It bothers me when people lose their sense of decorum and type things without thinking.

The name of this site is "CamaroZ28.com" ...now, I don't exactly know what was on Jason and Chris's minds when they created this site, but I suspect it was to create a site where people who have a passion for Camaros (and Firebirds) could get together and celebrate the car, the community, and the industry. I'm not foolish enough to think everything's going to be cheery all the time. But I cannot believe how civility has evidently taken a vacation lately.

Guys and Dolls......let's start thinking before we type. Let's keep this a site where people can come in and talk intelligently to each other. (yes, I'm guilty of flaming a few people when I reach my limit......I promise to work on that.)

That's the way I see it.......

poSSum

Hey Scott,

I'm glad you're back and really appreciate your perspective.

See you in Bowling Green --- maybe we'll get a game of checkers going there.

Caps94ZODG

Red,
Glad you can talk about this on the board..I have been one of those pesimist, and yes I will beleive when I see it..
I myself know that there is work GM is doing but I think the fear is that GM can just shutt he book on it again and nothing you nor anyone can do. Like you said its not our understanding but those things do happen..

and I think the frustration is in time..more than if..when it comes out when will it?? and its the factor of the impact of the car..if the tide is gone kinda like HHR hitting 4 yrs after the crusier..its bad..

Lets put it this way Red I have faith in the people like you at GM pushing for our favorite car..but I do not have faith in GM for making the right desisions...thats what scares me...

But glad to see you again!

Caps94ZODG

and ohhh yea..told you GM watched this site

Fbodfather

thanks CAPS....

keep a couple of things in mind:

It took GM several years to get into the position it's in. (I blame most of this on Zarella and the B of D.)

Look closely at Ford...they're feeling it too. Even the almighty Mercedes is in a world of hurt.

This is a brutal business.

Now....most businesses would slash the hell outta their product plans...that isn't happening at GM. If GM is to succeed, the new products have to flow...and we have to launch them flawlessly. (THAT"S a big job....)

One last 'tidbit'...the 'death' of certain car programs has been overstated.....don't believe for one minute what you read in the papers.

Trust me.

Reno Leigh

I am glad you are back, its good for you, and good for us, and good for GM.

I am glad I am back too.

Fbodfather

Yeah! Where have you been, anyway???? Seems you've been gone for ages!

Welcome back!

IZ28

PM sent.

jg95z28

Glad to have you back Red.

Nice perspective. It really is funny how everyone seems to have an opinion on how to fix GM... the economy... network tv... etc (fill-in the blank). The way I see it, if anyone actually knew how fix these things, would they be wasting their time posting it on the internet? No they'd be making a boatload on money as a consultant.

Lately it seems that there are more and more people out there who have lost faith and/or who seem to get excited anytime there's something negative to post about GM. It's gotten so bad lately that I've seriously considered taking a hiatus... however, your return and solemn words have given me renewed hope.

Again, glad to have you back!

Silverhawk

Red,

Thanks for sharing your response. I think your comments are very timely as there indeed seems to be a lot of "negativity" propagated by the media these days around the big three, particularly GM.

Speaking for myself, and as a "lurker" on this site for years, I must admit that its been a little (o.k. - REALLY) frustrating to see the competition come out with new muscle hardware (i.e. Mustang, Charger) and GM seemingly not interested (or late) to the game (I don't include the GTO as player as its not available in Canada).

From the time that it was announced that the 4th gens were coming to an end in late 2002 till today, the Camaro/Firebird enthusiast has not really had anything to become excited about as GM shifted its focus to trucks/SUVs. Compound this with the current financial woes GM seems to be facing, and Quite frankly, I'm not really surprised to see some of the comments from members on this site. I take these comments mostly with a grain of salt, as I'm sure these are conveyed as a form of pure frustration as time goes on and we still have no Camaro.

That said, its nice to have you post from time to time and renew our dwindling faith. It would be a shame if this site were to get to a point again where you felt it wasn't worth your time and efforts to respond and provide your insight.

Thanks again for your comments.........

Dave '97 Z28 M6

Well said, Red!

SSbaby

Hi Red,

I guess you are one of the more respected members here judging from the fan mail you receive. I'm an Aussie and newbie to the forum. Just want say that I'm "GM to the bone" and I get fairly emotional about all things GM. I think a lot of us are incined to be that way and that's why we post here, along with all the 'good' guys.

When the press gets hold of rumours, particularly negative innuendo, it does tend to get the better of one's emotions. There were quite a few engineers stood down from Holden a short while ago and we were hearing continual bad news about product delays, quality concerns etc... When GM sneezes, we're susceptible to catching a cold, too!

Nobody wants to see the demise of GM and we all want the future product now. That's most frustrating, I'd imagine, for a lot of hardcore Camaro fans. I suppose it's also hard for an outsider looking in to be 'unfairly judgemental' of GM, particularly when Holden have RWD products that Americans want and just can't get for reasons known internally to GM. Chrysler, too, have their own RWDs and are doing very nicely, thank you. So it just intensifies those emotions.

Anyway, apologies for the waffle, we are all seeking the same good outcome for GM and we hope the company bounces back with a vengeance. And welcome back to the forum, too!

Cheers

ProudPony

Welcome back, you "lurking monster" you!

It will be a pleasure to see more insider opinion and commentary, as well as getting the support of a major ponycar enthusiast. From my POV, anybody that loves ponycars is a special breed, and we need all the support we can get for this type of car/market in general, particularly for the successful return of the Camaro.

Despite some fiery posts from time to time, I never take anyone's posting or PM's as personal attacks. In fact, I try to see the passion that they are demonstrating as a good thing - maybe it just needs "refining" or "tuning" to make it more productive rather than disruptive. The guys wanting to block-up GM headquarters in Detroit with Camaros is a good example of this... GREAT passion, bad idea.

So bring your ideas, thoughts, typing fingers, (and a few facts now and then don't hurt) and get back with the party!

Darth Xed

Red,

I think it goes without saying that I am happy you are back...

I've been registered here for 4.5 years or so... been lurking a year or more before I actually signed up.

I spend 95% of my time in this particular forum, and there has been highs and lows.

Unfortunately, I think it only takes a few mindless morons to bring down the entire forum at times. I've always prided myself as being part of one of the most mature, and worth-while future car and future Camaro forums on the Internet, and I know there are, again, those few that are really dragging us down right now.

There will always be times where people disagree, and for the better part of the history of this board, those disagreements, while they could get elaborate, were generally carried out in a manner where it was discussed in a civil fashion.... now we have a select few who fabricate "facts" and such, just to bash GM at every oppourtunity....

I spent a lot of time (probably far too much time) smacking back these "facts" into the face of these few folks, one inparticular, most of the time they get embarrassed and go away. Unfortuantely, some people have nothing better to do than try to ruin and destroy things that others value, like this forum. I took Doug Harden's advice and decided not to "feed the troll" and haven't repsonded to this person for a few months now... it's often VERY hard not to, with some of the outlandish garbage that this person throws out there... but there's no point trying to be rational with someone who has a select and specific agenda of simply trying to cause problems.

I apologize, because, you, of all people, should not feel like you want to seperate yourself from a place like this. I'm very happy you are giving it another chance.

I think I am hoping that you and Pacer's "meter" never hits a 10.0, I think that might be your explosion point...

Chris 96 WS6

Agreed. I have always thought this site more than any other F-body website has been the unofficial portal to GM, if not in total then just as far as the Fcars are concerned. Seemed wrong to be coming here if the Fbodfather wasn't.

I'm glad you're back too. I think we've been sorely missing that internal perspective here, and perhaps that's why "decorum" has deteriorated here. In the abscence of knowledge, people will and do make up things and jump to conclusions to fill the gaps.