Obama: 42 MPG for cars + CO2 regs by 2016.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Not often I disagree with PP. 
But I do on this occasion.
What separates GM from other companies (in my book) is affordable performance. I love GM powertrains. I guess that's a huge reason why I prefer GM products in general. 
Otherwise, I'll always drive Toyota!
But I do on this occasion.
What separates GM from other companies (in my book) is affordable performance. I love GM powertrains. I guess that's a huge reason why I prefer GM products in general. Otherwise, I'll always drive Toyota!
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
The problem is....it is the Capitalistic "I want" culture that has gotten America where it is. Like it or not..the fact that we as a people are able to do and achieve what we want is what seperates us from the have nots like Russia, Europe, and in the future China. People are most productive, and to their greatest work when it is for their own personal gain..plain and simple. That being the case, any society that limits the ability of it's citizens to work for their own being, or limites possesions and potential is predetermined to have a subaverage future.
I like cars...do I need 3 cars...hell no. However..I have to earn the money to pay for it, and I am sure my boss is happy I work my *** off so I can afford the 3 cars I want. I sure work harder to have those cars than I would if I were only allowed one car by some regulation.
A society that is built on the idea of making due with "what is needed" is not one that innovates and makes game changing innovations. Sure we will run out of oil some day...but you know what..we might get hit by a meteorid or go bankrupt under mountains of debt also. Oil is king right now because it is the cheapest form of portable energy. I am willing to bet when the situation gets to the point that oil is no longer the best value...some person looking to have a big house, and a lot of money will find a way to replace it. This is a country that went from horse and buggy to the moon in 70 years based on the enginuity of the American people. Who knows where we will be in 40 years when the oil situation gets real.
My point is...in a capitalistic society, when the consumer wants a better value that oil..it will appear and be used. Untill then..any spending we do is nothing but a government or emotional give away.
I like cars...do I need 3 cars...hell no. However..I have to earn the money to pay for it, and I am sure my boss is happy I work my *** off so I can afford the 3 cars I want. I sure work harder to have those cars than I would if I were only allowed one car by some regulation.
A society that is built on the idea of making due with "what is needed" is not one that innovates and makes game changing innovations. Sure we will run out of oil some day...but you know what..we might get hit by a meteorid or go bankrupt under mountains of debt also. Oil is king right now because it is the cheapest form of portable energy. I am willing to bet when the situation gets to the point that oil is no longer the best value...some person looking to have a big house, and a lot of money will find a way to replace it. This is a country that went from horse and buggy to the moon in 70 years based on the enginuity of the American people. Who knows where we will be in 40 years when the oil situation gets real.
My point is...in a capitalistic society, when the consumer wants a better value that oil..it will appear and be used. Untill then..any spending we do is nothing but a government or emotional give away.
OK - truth hurts.
I have said for years that we are at the 2nd peak of performance cars, and just like before - it will die. I have speculated that insurance companies will have their share of the blame, the government will have it's share, and the economy would do the rest. There is no single person to execute here - it's a movement, collective, en-masse.
I'm going to ask every one of you - one on one - to be very honest with yourself for just a second.
Do you really need 400hp to drive to work and back every day?
Do you really need 540hp to go out for dinner Saturday night with the wife and kids?
Do you really need 390hp to bring home groceries tonight?
Do you really need 455hp to run the packages to the post office?
Do you really need 500hp in the drag car you race at the local track on the weekend? (OK - this one was to see if you are paying attention!
)
You see, we (especially Americans) are so spoiled and wasteful it is insane. We think it is our birthright to own a fast car, an SUV, and a toy in the garage. We think nothing about wasting gas, oil, and other resources because, well, we simply "want that vehicle". Yet again, we are our own worst enemy. We are greedy, self-centered humans that are letting the spoils of Pandora's Box get the best of us... again.
I have maintained, and will continue to maintain, that the automotive market is just in the beginnings of a major shift. One that will result in the elimination of many of the mainstays of the last 20 years. We are about to see vehicles that are much lighter, less powerful, and more eco-friendly. Try to be honest with yourself, and understand what you really NEED versus what you want to have for your everyday vehicle. Some of the folks on this board (in the "If there was no Camaro" thread) have already indicated that the new Camaro is no longer on their list of desired vehicles due to babies, job situation, etc. Those are the kinds of folks that are more in-tune with their actual needs as compared with their desires.
Now listen, it is TOTALLY OK to want a new Camaro SS. I want one - I swear I do. But is it at the top of my needs list? Nope. Nor should it be. Would a V6 be at the top of the needs list? Maybe not, but it sure is farther up the list than an SS. A 4-door or crossover would be further up the list for me than the V6 Camaro, as I have a family and appreciate the 4-doors alot.
This plays right into the economic plan that I have touted for the lineup as well. Exotic, big-engined performers are toys for people with money. They are not/should not be intended for mainstream volumes and daily-driver vehicles of the masses. I love them as much as anyone, but their existence is for a different purpose IMO.
Some of you guys can flame away at me all you like, but I speak the truth to you. I work in this industry, developing parts and systems for cars that are 2-3 years away from seeing the streets, and I am telling you what is coming. You can fight it or embrace it, but it IS coming.
In 5 years or so, I expect to see us bench-racing our upcoming 2800-lb ponycars that have I-4, I-5, and V6 engines with direct injection and power adders. A few years after that, we will be talking about adding low-weight capacitors for a short boost to the electric wheel motors and current/voltage-management programs to maximize our range while maintaining performance.
I have said for years that we are at the 2nd peak of performance cars, and just like before - it will die. I have speculated that insurance companies will have their share of the blame, the government will have it's share, and the economy would do the rest. There is no single person to execute here - it's a movement, collective, en-masse.
I'm going to ask every one of you - one on one - to be very honest with yourself for just a second.
Do you really need 400hp to drive to work and back every day?
Do you really need 540hp to go out for dinner Saturday night with the wife and kids?
Do you really need 390hp to bring home groceries tonight?
Do you really need 455hp to run the packages to the post office?
Do you really need 500hp in the drag car you race at the local track on the weekend? (OK - this one was to see if you are paying attention!
)You see, we (especially Americans) are so spoiled and wasteful it is insane. We think it is our birthright to own a fast car, an SUV, and a toy in the garage. We think nothing about wasting gas, oil, and other resources because, well, we simply "want that vehicle". Yet again, we are our own worst enemy. We are greedy, self-centered humans that are letting the spoils of Pandora's Box get the best of us... again.
I have maintained, and will continue to maintain, that the automotive market is just in the beginnings of a major shift. One that will result in the elimination of many of the mainstays of the last 20 years. We are about to see vehicles that are much lighter, less powerful, and more eco-friendly. Try to be honest with yourself, and understand what you really NEED versus what you want to have for your everyday vehicle. Some of the folks on this board (in the "If there was no Camaro" thread) have already indicated that the new Camaro is no longer on their list of desired vehicles due to babies, job situation, etc. Those are the kinds of folks that are more in-tune with their actual needs as compared with their desires.
Now listen, it is TOTALLY OK to want a new Camaro SS. I want one - I swear I do. But is it at the top of my needs list? Nope. Nor should it be. Would a V6 be at the top of the needs list? Maybe not, but it sure is farther up the list than an SS. A 4-door or crossover would be further up the list for me than the V6 Camaro, as I have a family and appreciate the 4-doors alot.
This plays right into the economic plan that I have touted for the lineup as well. Exotic, big-engined performers are toys for people with money. They are not/should not be intended for mainstream volumes and daily-driver vehicles of the masses. I love them as much as anyone, but their existence is for a different purpose IMO.
Some of you guys can flame away at me all you like, but I speak the truth to you. I work in this industry, developing parts and systems for cars that are 2-3 years away from seeing the streets, and I am telling you what is coming. You can fight it or embrace it, but it IS coming.
In 5 years or so, I expect to see us bench-racing our upcoming 2800-lb ponycars that have I-4, I-5, and V6 engines with direct injection and power adders. A few years after that, we will be talking about adding low-weight capacitors for a short boost to the electric wheel motors and current/voltage-management programs to maximize our range while maintaining performance.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
Even the outgoing VP argued that oil is "unique" from a market perspective.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,698
From: USA
I think a replacement or alterative will be developed when oils cost advantage disappears. Again..right now we grumble about it...just like we groumble about borrowing from China..however nothing will happen untill it hits our wallets in a long term manner.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 666
From: Stockton, Ca. USA
How does it cost taxpayers money to get oil? The taxpayers make a ton of money off oil. just look at Alaska. The media and the environazis have done a wonderful job of making oil the evil of all the world. Its sad because it has done wonders for the world.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,647
From: At car shows and cruise nights!
These posts about having only what we need just baffle me. The people that came to this country and built it up didn't do all this so we could only have what we need and nothing more. What about the American dream? What about making our own choices? If people work and have the money, they should have what they want and desire in life, without it being taken away by an enviro-socialist crazed government. The only way to stop these lunatics is for people to rise up against it, because it's the only way big things were ever accomplished in this country. Hopefully, by the time this all comes around we won't have a super liberal in office and they reverse the damage that these people want to inflict. The car industry/economy needs help to make money and sales, not tougher regulations.
Last edited by IZ28; May 20, 2009 at 02:10 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
A society that is built on the idea of making due with "what is needed" is not one that innovates and makes game changing innovations. Sure we will run out of oil some day...but you know what..we might get hit by a meteorid or go bankrupt under mountains of debt also. Oil is king right now because it is the cheapest form of portable energy. I am willing to bet when the situation gets to the point that oil is no longer the best value...some person looking to have a big house, and a lot of money will find a way to replace it. This is a country that went from horse and buggy to the moon in 70 years based on the enginuity of the American people. Who knows where we will be in 40 years when the oil situation gets real.
My point is...in a capitalistic society, when the consumer wants a better value that oil..it will appear and be used. Untill then..any spending we do is nothing but a government or emotional give away.
My point is...in a capitalistic society, when the consumer wants a better value that oil..it will appear and be used. Untill then..any spending we do is nothing but a government or emotional give away.
I agree, the public will buy what ever is the most cost efficient fuel. But right now we want cheap gas, when prices go up, people flip out and pester their congressman/senator to do stupid things to get prices lower (cutting taxes that fund roads, subsidizing big oil, invading oil rich countries, etc..) yet at the same time people blame the auto companies for not making more fuel efficient cars like they do in the rest of the world. Again to make driving cheaper. It is a no win situation because as we know, low fuel prices don't encourage conservation. The best solution is higher gas tax. Alan Greenspan recommended a $3 a gallon tax to cut out consumption of imported oil. Of course this is political suicide and you will never see it done. So here we are with CAFE. I think gas will be back at $4 when the economy recovers and we know hybrids will be getting cheaper and better. This will most likely be a non issue come 2016.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Proud, life would suck if all we are able to do is what we NEED to do just to survive. I guess you aren't suggesting that, but simply pointing out that the market is adjusting (as they tend to do)... ?
I mean, some basic food, a place to s**t, and a place to sleep that keeps the weather off of us ought to do it, right?
So only rich folks should be able to enjoy a fast car?
And today's 400 hp cars do better on fuel (in normal driving) than the leviathons of old, offering far superior performance, safety, handling, emissions, etc. Not to mention, it isn't like everyone is buying the 400 hp versions of cars. There may be a lot more options than a few years ago at that power level, but they are still a vast, vast minority.
Meanwhile, yes, average horsepower has gone up across the board. And the market can (and is) adjusting by way of supply and demand. When people decide that the price of fuel is high enough, they'll opt for the 4 cylinder Malibu instead of the 6 (most do anyway, by the way, as they do for Camry, Accord, etc.).
Sounds pretty elitist (though I don't think you mean it that way) to suggest that the rest of us shouldn't be able to enjoy power if we want it.
Should we limit the speed and performance capabilities of the computers people are allowed to buy? After all, they use energy too. What about TVs?
EDIT: Reading / skimming your post again, it looks like you are primarily pointing out where things are headed (which is undoubtedly more or less true), not necessarily that it should / must go that way. You won't get much argument from many of us about wanting to keep weight down (so you don't NEED as much power to go silly fast) and so forth. Just so long as we still have the freedom to build the silly fast cars if we choose (but maybe 400 hp is silly fast, instead of 600 hp on a heavier car...)
I mean, some basic food, a place to s**t, and a place to sleep that keeps the weather off of us ought to do it, right?
So only rich folks should be able to enjoy a fast car?
And today's 400 hp cars do better on fuel (in normal driving) than the leviathons of old, offering far superior performance, safety, handling, emissions, etc. Not to mention, it isn't like everyone is buying the 400 hp versions of cars. There may be a lot more options than a few years ago at that power level, but they are still a vast, vast minority.
Meanwhile, yes, average horsepower has gone up across the board. And the market can (and is) adjusting by way of supply and demand. When people decide that the price of fuel is high enough, they'll opt for the 4 cylinder Malibu instead of the 6 (most do anyway, by the way, as they do for Camry, Accord, etc.).
Sounds pretty elitist (though I don't think you mean it that way) to suggest that the rest of us shouldn't be able to enjoy power if we want it.
Should we limit the speed and performance capabilities of the computers people are allowed to buy? After all, they use energy too. What about TVs?
EDIT: Reading / skimming your post again, it looks like you are primarily pointing out where things are headed (which is undoubtedly more or less true), not necessarily that it should / must go that way. You won't get much argument from many of us about wanting to keep weight down (so you don't NEED as much power to go silly fast) and so forth. Just so long as we still have the freedom to build the silly fast cars if we choose (but maybe 400 hp is silly fast, instead of 600 hp on a heavier car...)
Nowhere have I ever said that you are having decisions taken away from you. If you have the money and want the 540hp grocery cart - go get it. But understand that you are doing yourself and our nation a bit of a dis-service because you are wasting our resources needlessly... and grossly.
I never said only the rich deserve a fast car. But let's also be honest with ourselves. Do you see many Ferrari's parked in trailer parks? The rich will always have special advantages - that won't change. The cool thing for common Joes is taking something marginal and making it perform maximally. That is the essence and the roots of hot-rodding, and it will continue into the future as far as I can imagine. I have no doubt that we will be "tuning" anything and everything that OEM's can produce - be it a 3-cyl DI turbo or a 100% electric unit. I even commented on that at the end of my post.
No harm, no foul by me - I understand your post and appreciate the edit section. No, I am not trying to sound elitist at all. I'm just stating that changes are coming, and we (collectively as Americans) have made our own beds... don't try to pass the buck to anyone else for our situation. When the day comes that I don't see throngs of F350 Duallys and Escalades dropping off 1 kid each at school in the morning... I'll begin to think we are making progress.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Posts like this drive me nuts. First off this new set of regulations will be nad for performance cars period. No matter how you slice or dice it its not good.
You talk about what yopu really need. I agree we dont really need 500 hp cars to go to the store, but if you want to use that commie way of thinking, we could get rid of alot of things we dont need. Do we really need NASCAR, the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, video games, snow skiing, waterskiing, wakeboarding, motocross, 24 inch wheels..... I could go on and on. I look at it as another take away for our freedom as living as an American. We dont need a lot of things that we do, but that is why we enjoy life in America.
You talk about what yopu really need. I agree we dont really need 500 hp cars to go to the store, but if you want to use that commie way of thinking, we could get rid of alot of things we dont need. Do we really need NASCAR, the NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, video games, snow skiing, waterskiing, wakeboarding, motocross, 24 inch wheels..... I could go on and on. I look at it as another take away for our freedom as living as an American. We dont need a lot of things that we do, but that is why we enjoy life in America.
Posts like this drive me nuts.
I post thoughts and facts to try to present a situation and predict what is coming for us all, and I'm a commie.
You go spend a few years in countries where people live in cardboard boxes, have no running water, are subjected to corrupt cops and no judicial system, have no form of social protection, no basic provisions, no guarantee of health care or even a next meal... and then post on this board about how "necessary" the things you posted REALLY are.
I'm not saying I want everything abolished but survival needs. I never brought the word survival up in my post. But there is a huge difference in surviving, living a nice yet modest lifestyle, and being grossly wasteful.
If you have the money and the resources, why can you not use a 3-cyl or hybrid for your everyday commuting and errands to save gobs of fuel for the week, then pull out your hot rod for a Saturday drive, a trip to the track, or a cruise... then put it back up for a while?
Again, I'm not being extremeist or elitist... I'm simply pointing out that the average American is accustomed to living a lavish lifestyle that is grossly wasteful... unneccessarilly wasteful. It's time we started to change our ways a bit. Shame we can't see that and make the changes ourselves, and not need organizations and governmental interference to make us see that, because I don't want anyone to make the choices for me (or you), but apparently that is what it's coming to.
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
If so, I can introduce you to some I4 drivers that would strongly disagree.
And then there is the electric-powered cars that are rivaling and even surpassing the IC engine these days...
American (Electric) Muscle: Ronale Mustang 300E and HST Shelby Cobra EV300
"The Ronaele Mustang 300E HST and Shelby Cobra EV300 are built to prove that electric vehicles aren't just good for the environment, but good for winning times on the race track as well. Each is powered by a 300kw electric motor derived from those used to power forklifts and modified to better suit a road car. Each is also capable of over 1000 lb-ft of torque, 300 horsepower, and a range of over 100 miles (as long as you don't indulge your right foot too much). At the track, both should be good for four to six full-throttle quarter-mile runs before they'll need recharging -- a process that takes approximately three hours to complete -- and both are capable of sub-four-second runs to 60 mph."
How easy is it to get 1000lb-ft of torque from a small block?
Remember.... I'm not advocating a neutered life, just an economically responsible one. We all want/need toys to play with - I've no problem with that. But I have a huge problem with 80% of Americans driving 400hp or more vehicles only to sit in gridlock on a highway during a morning commute. We need to change our ways.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 203
From: U.S.A.
What I need?
What I need?
If I lived where I needed to live it would be in a one-room efficiency apartment within walking distance of where I work and go to church and shop for groceries with most other items I need purchased on the internet and delivered by USPS employees on a glorified Segway. Instead, while I could walk to the grocery, I live (alone) in a three bedroom two bath home that is almost 40% larger than the one I grew up in that is 18 miles from my job and 10 miles from my church.
If I lived where I needed to live (and should live per the dirt people) I wouldn’t need to own a car at all.
Living where I do and with a complete lack of any public transportation here, I do need a vehicle but if I owned what I “needed” I could get by with a 1976 Chevette so long as I kept it running. Instead, I own a two-seater sports car that outperforms many, many other sport and sporty cars on the road that stickers for more than the first house I owned and is ABSOLUTLY unneeded and impractical and I love every moment I’m in it. For my grocery getter, I own a four door luxury sedan that has more HP, accelerates faster, corners better and stops quicker than most of the “performance” cars I’ve owned (I’ve owned several over the years) and costs about twice what my fist house sold for.
I’m all for clean air and clean water and a clean environment but I am not for returning to a 1800’s lifestyle and I’m not willing to spend more money to buy less especially when I’m being told I have to do so all based on the LIE of global climate change and the even bigger LIE that mankind can do anything to either hasten or alter global climate change even if it’s happening.
I’m all for vehicles that are safer and perform better and are more efficient but not because some former community organizer has to pay off a debt to one of his constituencies so that he can get their vote next election…a constituency that, if they had their way, would outlaw all vehicles and the roads they travel on and force us all into an 1800’s lifestyle - a constituency who’s spokespeople fly around on private jets from city to city and country to country just to tell me I shouldn’t drive an SUV. But, I guess they got their wish because this will mean the end of the full-sized SUV and perhaps all SUvs that can actually do anything an SUV was supposed to do. I suppose now they'll keep flying around to tell us not to eat Big Macs.
I wonder what’s going to happen to GM (or Ford or Chrysler/Fiat or any of the rest) when people decide they like the vehicles they have more than the vehicles Mr. BO and his ilk say we can have? The new “standards” (I guess they don’t like the word mandate anymore) will fundamentally change the auto industry (or kill it) and what we have to choose from and unless one has a bunch of money to spend, I would say that a lot of people aren’t going to like the choices.
Very few of life’s pleasures come only from doing or owning what we need and no more. I’ll be proudly wasting a lot of gasoline in a few weeks as I take about a 4,400 mile road trip in my completely impractical sports car just for the fun of it and I don’t really care how much gasoline costs when I’m on the road.
Am I spoiled? Maybe; but no one has ever given me anything I have. I’ve worked for everything I have and the moment someone tells me I can’t have it anymore is the day I stop working and let the government (meaning all of you) start paying my way.
One last thing, I like my incandescent light and I don’t own a single “compact florescent” light bulb and I never will and I proudly light the outside of my home at night, especially during the annual “Earth Hour”.
No offense intended to anyone here with a different opinion or outlook on life.
Live long and prosper.
If I lived where I needed to live it would be in a one-room efficiency apartment within walking distance of where I work and go to church and shop for groceries with most other items I need purchased on the internet and delivered by USPS employees on a glorified Segway. Instead, while I could walk to the grocery, I live (alone) in a three bedroom two bath home that is almost 40% larger than the one I grew up in that is 18 miles from my job and 10 miles from my church.
If I lived where I needed to live (and should live per the dirt people) I wouldn’t need to own a car at all.
Living where I do and with a complete lack of any public transportation here, I do need a vehicle but if I owned what I “needed” I could get by with a 1976 Chevette so long as I kept it running. Instead, I own a two-seater sports car that outperforms many, many other sport and sporty cars on the road that stickers for more than the first house I owned and is ABSOLUTLY unneeded and impractical and I love every moment I’m in it. For my grocery getter, I own a four door luxury sedan that has more HP, accelerates faster, corners better and stops quicker than most of the “performance” cars I’ve owned (I’ve owned several over the years) and costs about twice what my fist house sold for.
I’m all for clean air and clean water and a clean environment but I am not for returning to a 1800’s lifestyle and I’m not willing to spend more money to buy less especially when I’m being told I have to do so all based on the LIE of global climate change and the even bigger LIE that mankind can do anything to either hasten or alter global climate change even if it’s happening.
I’m all for vehicles that are safer and perform better and are more efficient but not because some former community organizer has to pay off a debt to one of his constituencies so that he can get their vote next election…a constituency that, if they had their way, would outlaw all vehicles and the roads they travel on and force us all into an 1800’s lifestyle - a constituency who’s spokespeople fly around on private jets from city to city and country to country just to tell me I shouldn’t drive an SUV. But, I guess they got their wish because this will mean the end of the full-sized SUV and perhaps all SUvs that can actually do anything an SUV was supposed to do. I suppose now they'll keep flying around to tell us not to eat Big Macs.
I wonder what’s going to happen to GM (or Ford or Chrysler/Fiat or any of the rest) when people decide they like the vehicles they have more than the vehicles Mr. BO and his ilk say we can have? The new “standards” (I guess they don’t like the word mandate anymore) will fundamentally change the auto industry (or kill it) and what we have to choose from and unless one has a bunch of money to spend, I would say that a lot of people aren’t going to like the choices.
Very few of life’s pleasures come only from doing or owning what we need and no more. I’ll be proudly wasting a lot of gasoline in a few weeks as I take about a 4,400 mile road trip in my completely impractical sports car just for the fun of it and I don’t really care how much gasoline costs when I’m on the road.
Am I spoiled? Maybe; but no one has ever given me anything I have. I’ve worked for everything I have and the moment someone tells me I can’t have it anymore is the day I stop working and let the government (meaning all of you) start paying my way.
One last thing, I like my incandescent light and I don’t own a single “compact florescent” light bulb and I never will and I proudly light the outside of my home at night, especially during the annual “Earth Hour”.
No offense intended to anyone here with a different opinion or outlook on life.
Live long and prosper.
Last edited by Route66Wanderer; May 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM.
Disciple
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,479
We may disagree on what available content should be for certain vehicles but we sure see eye to eye on this. I just can't articulate my thoughts the way you and Guy do.
I see it as the individual rights vs. community good pendulum starting to move the other way.
I see it as the individual rights vs. community good pendulum starting to move the other way.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,808
From: FL/MI
What I need?
If I lived where I needed to live it would be in a one-room efficiency apartment within walking distance of where I work and go to church and shop for groceries with most other items I need purchased on the internet and delivered by USPS employees on a glorified Segway. Instead, while I could walk to the grocery, I live (alone) in a three bedroom two bath home that is almost 40% larger than the one I grew up in that is 18 miles from my job and 10 miles from my church.
If I lived where I needed to live (and should live per the dirt people) I wouldn’t need to own a car at all.
Living where I do and with a complete lack of any public transportation here, I do need a vehicle but if I owned what I “needed” I could get by with a 1976 Chevette so long as I kept it running. Instead, I own a two-seater sports car that outperforms many, many other sport and sporty cars on the road that stickers for more than the first house I owned and is ABSOLUTLY unneeded and impractical and I love every moment I’m in it. For my grocery getter, I own a four door luxury sedan that has more HP, accelerates faster, corners better and stops quicker than most of the “performance” cars I’ve owned (I’ve owned several over the years) and costs about twice what my fist house sold for.
I’m all for clean air and clean water and a clean environment but I am not for returning to a 1800’s lifestyle and I’m not willing to spend more money to buy less especially when I’m being told I have to do so all based on the LIE of global climate change and the even bigger LIE that mankind can do anything to either hasten or alter global climate change even if it’s happening.
I’m all for vehicles that are safer and perform better and are more efficient but not because some former community organizer has to pay off a debt to one of his constituencies so that he can get their vote next election…a constituency that, if they had their way, would outlaw all vehicles and the roads they travel on and force us all into an 1800’s lifestyle - a constituency who’s spokespeople fly around on private jets from city to city and country to country just to tell me I shouldn’t drive an SUV. But, I guess they got their wish because this will mean the end of the full-sized SUV and perhaps all SUvs that can actually do anything an SUV was supposed to do. I suppose now they'll keep flying around to tell us not to eat Big Macs.
I wonder what’s going to happen to GM (or Ford or Chrysler/Fiat or any of the rest) when people decide they like the vehicles they have more than the vehicles Mr. BO and his ilk say we can have? The new “standards” (I guess they don’t like the word mandate anymore) will fundamentally change the auto industry (or kill it) and what we have to choose from and unless one has a bunch of money to spend, I would say that a lot of people aren’t going to like the choices.
Very few of life’s pleasures come only from doing or owning what we need and no more. I’ll be proudly wasting a lot of gasoline in a few weeks as I take about a 4,400 mile road trip in my completely impractical sports car just for the fun of it and I don’t really care how much gasoline costs when I’m on the road.
Am I spoiled? Maybe; but no one has ever given me anything I have. I’ve worked for everything I have and the moment someone tells me I can’t have it anymore is the day I stop working and let the government (meaning all of you) start paying my way.
One last thing, I like my incandescent light and I don’t own a single “compact florescent” light bulb and I never will and I proudly light the outside of my home at night, especially during the annual “Earth Hour”.
No offense intended to anyone here with a different opinion or outlook on life.
Live long and prosper.
If I lived where I needed to live it would be in a one-room efficiency apartment within walking distance of where I work and go to church and shop for groceries with most other items I need purchased on the internet and delivered by USPS employees on a glorified Segway. Instead, while I could walk to the grocery, I live (alone) in a three bedroom two bath home that is almost 40% larger than the one I grew up in that is 18 miles from my job and 10 miles from my church.
If I lived where I needed to live (and should live per the dirt people) I wouldn’t need to own a car at all.
Living where I do and with a complete lack of any public transportation here, I do need a vehicle but if I owned what I “needed” I could get by with a 1976 Chevette so long as I kept it running. Instead, I own a two-seater sports car that outperforms many, many other sport and sporty cars on the road that stickers for more than the first house I owned and is ABSOLUTLY unneeded and impractical and I love every moment I’m in it. For my grocery getter, I own a four door luxury sedan that has more HP, accelerates faster, corners better and stops quicker than most of the “performance” cars I’ve owned (I’ve owned several over the years) and costs about twice what my fist house sold for.
I’m all for clean air and clean water and a clean environment but I am not for returning to a 1800’s lifestyle and I’m not willing to spend more money to buy less especially when I’m being told I have to do so all based on the LIE of global climate change and the even bigger LIE that mankind can do anything to either hasten or alter global climate change even if it’s happening.
I’m all for vehicles that are safer and perform better and are more efficient but not because some former community organizer has to pay off a debt to one of his constituencies so that he can get their vote next election…a constituency that, if they had their way, would outlaw all vehicles and the roads they travel on and force us all into an 1800’s lifestyle - a constituency who’s spokespeople fly around on private jets from city to city and country to country just to tell me I shouldn’t drive an SUV. But, I guess they got their wish because this will mean the end of the full-sized SUV and perhaps all SUvs that can actually do anything an SUV was supposed to do. I suppose now they'll keep flying around to tell us not to eat Big Macs.
I wonder what’s going to happen to GM (or Ford or Chrysler/Fiat or any of the rest) when people decide they like the vehicles they have more than the vehicles Mr. BO and his ilk say we can have? The new “standards” (I guess they don’t like the word mandate anymore) will fundamentally change the auto industry (or kill it) and what we have to choose from and unless one has a bunch of money to spend, I would say that a lot of people aren’t going to like the choices.
Very few of life’s pleasures come only from doing or owning what we need and no more. I’ll be proudly wasting a lot of gasoline in a few weeks as I take about a 4,400 mile road trip in my completely impractical sports car just for the fun of it and I don’t really care how much gasoline costs when I’m on the road.
Am I spoiled? Maybe; but no one has ever given me anything I have. I’ve worked for everything I have and the moment someone tells me I can’t have it anymore is the day I stop working and let the government (meaning all of you) start paying my way.
One last thing, I like my incandescent light and I don’t own a single “compact florescent” light bulb and I never will and I proudly light the outside of my home at night, especially during the annual “Earth Hour”.
No offense intended to anyone here with a different opinion or outlook on life.
Live long and prosper.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 915
From: Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted by Route66Wanderer
...
You think everyone wants to force us to live an 1800s style way of life. I disagree, what we want is for Americans to learn to live a 21st century lifestyle by choice, and escape an impending energy and resource crisis that will force us into an 18th century lifestyle.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,502
Personally, I think CAFE is a boneheaded way to cut oil consumption. It only exists because it's the politically easy option. However, it does work to make the alternatives more cost-competitive.
So, what's the options?
- Keep doing what we are doing until the Chinese stop loaning us money and then buy up all the oil anyway. Most shortterm thinking "something for nothing" Americans support this idea, but we need politicians smarter than that.
- Let the Free Market decide. Which means we would have gas lines everytime some dictator got a bug up his butt. Politically unacceptable.
- Cut oil consumption and replace it with energy we do have (coal/nuclear). Good idea in theory, but in practice it's going to be painful in the short term.
Alaska ... great. However if we stopped importing oil, the place would be pumped dry within a year or two, "*****" or no. That's the geological reality.
