Eric Bryant

The pic was taken after I started pulling off some of the tiedowns. Regardless, I should probably think about getting a headache rack at some point.

Robert_Nashville

For you it's a tool; for many, many others it's the family station wagon or even their "sports car" and will never be used at a construction site or to pull a farm wagon full of grain or to tow a trailer of painter's tools/ladders.

While those "business" uses were what the pickup was designed for decades ago, that's a small part of the overall market these days.

Robert_Nashville

You keep arguing this and arguing this and you still have nothing to offer to support your argument except your opinion. I say you are wrong and you say I am wrong. You don't like the data I offered that's fine; at least I offered some.

Until you've got something to offer to support your assertion then that's all it is, an assertion.

GRNcamaro

i offered that data from the ford site what that doesnt count? but the date that you pulled the uses all light trucks, mini vans, compact trucks, tractor trailers, light vans, medium trucks, and what ever else they felt they wanted to throw in there is okay. your right this discussion is over you argument over becuase im waisting my time becuase your gona use what ever you want to justify that your right even if it relevant. come find me when find me when you have real and relevant use able data to back your self up.

Eric Bryant

There's a point in this, and it's that many diverse tastes exist in the pickup market. For many consumers, it's about capability; for others, it's simply about the perception of capability. As for me, if it doesn't have a full-length bed and eight lugs, it's just not going to fit my usage. The usage of anyone else on this forum is simply not relevant to me.

Anyways, the market will sort this out. If I were the Big 3, I would indeed be concerned about Nissan and Toyota right now. And if I were a transplant, I'd be very aware of the fact that most Ford, GM, and Dodge customers are not actively looking at a reason to jump ship.

Robert_Nashville

If you want to stick to a press release from Ford that talks about the F250 and F350 Super Duty as the support for your contention you are free to do so but I have trouble relying on a press release with no indication of how the figures stated were arrived at nor do I believe that basing a thory about how often half ton pickups are used for towing based on how three-quarter ton or full ton pickups are used is appropriate.

You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitied to mine and without hard facts that's all they are.

PacerX

Summary:

The Titan's a turd, sales are dropping precipitously (production being off 45%), and Nashville here has to find a mid-line Chevy to compare it with, coupled with his opinion that most Titan buyers actually don't want a truck - which is why they buy one in the first place.

Oh, and while we're at it:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...610020355/1148

Nissan - sending production back to Japan, where it belongs.

Robert_Nashville

My, my, my; now there’s an intelligent comment but not altogether unexpected from you.

What you call a “mid-line Chevy” was the best GM had two years ago to compete with the Titan; now it’s suddenly unfair to compare the two? Well of course it is because when you do the Chevy looses the comparison.

Just what is your source for your sales figures, PacerX? Off “45%” from what, exactly? Is it 45% from some sales projection by someone from before $3/gal gas prices became a reality or 45% from forecasts for a month or a quarter or what? You see, knowing that makes a difference…I could say that Titan production is up 500% if you compare the first full month of initial production to the first full day of production which would be factually accurate but give a wholly inaccurate picture of the health of Titan production.

Is your “45%” just a figure you pulled out of your backside or are you quoting some blog or some other posting on some other website from someone equally open-minded as you? By the way, how many plants has Nissan closed in the past 24 months because of Titan sales "dropping precipitously"?

Is the Titan selling as many as Nissan can produce or would like to produce, no. Do you think Chevy or Ford or Dodge are selling as many light trucks as they can produce or would like to? The answer is a very big no.

While we are waiting for you to cite your source, here are some figures for you to ponder, per Automotive Digest; the big three’s truck sales are off 10% in the first half of 2006 alone (after already coming off a bad year for truck sales). To most thinking individuals, that would indicate that truck sales are bad for everybody. Now, if you want to think that it’s only the Titan you go right ahead but Nissan will go on counting its profits while GM continues to hemorrhage $Billions per quarter.

I also don’t appreciate your cheep shot of obviously misquoting what I’ve said in this discussion - what I’ve said throughout this thread is that most people don’t care about towing capacity or payload because that is not what most buyers use their trucks for no matter what nameplate they buy. Now you may not like it but it’s precisely all those buyers who have bought those trucks and SUVs in the past 15 years who have kept Detroit profitable and it’s the abandonment of those buyers to more sensible vehicles that is causing all the red ink at GM and Ford and DCX.

Oh and by the way, the reason the Quest and QX56 production is being sent to Japan is because the Canton plant is needed for increased production of another vehicle; I’ll leave it to you to guess which one and what might be coming.

What really pisses you off, PacerX, not that you’ll ever admit it, is that some “ferrin” car company actually had the ***** to build a truck that not only competes favorably but wins most comparisons to Detroit’s offerings and does so with domestic parts content on par with your beloved Chevy.

You don’t like the Titan, fine. You don’t want to buy a Titan, fine. If you think calling the Titan a “turd” is going to advance your argument or save GM from bankruptcy you are very, very wrong.

Robert_Nashville

Removed; duplicate post

PacerX

Automotive News 8/28/06 Issue.
Data is production year-to-date vs. last year.



Glad you finally admitted it.



GM is in the middle of re-tooling for the GMT-900's. Sales will most assuredly be off as the plants individually go down to do the changeover... but even with the changeover, production will most likely not be off by 45%...



Waaaah.


Again, if you don't want a truck, the Titan is perfect.



LOL.

As soon as Nissan or Toyota actually builds a truck that competes favorably, let me know.

Threxx

I suspect that even if the new Tundra does compete favorably, you won't admit it. Just a guess.

PacerX

They've failed so far, so color me surprised if they do.

Robert_Nashville

It already does build a truck and when it was introduced every single industry publication of the time knew it and said so; I guess you just missed those.

Yes; I'm sure the Big three are closing plants and that GM lost over $11Billion last year because it's re-tooling and everything is going to be just rosy again when their re-tooling is done. You apparently also think GM is the only one making changes/will be offering new products to counter those re-tooling changes - I'm sure GM would like that to be the case.

PacerX

Stay on point, Sparky. This is about trucks.

Regarding production numbers:
I got data.
You got zilch.

3 years in and the thing is tanking... and is about to face the single most formidible competitor in the market - all new, completely retooled and boasting superior features, specifications and technology.

Gas prices are dropping too...


Got 367hp? Nope. CAN'T. Less power AND worse fuel economy out of a physically larger and heavier motor.
Got a 2,000 lbs. payload? Nope.
Got +10,000 pounds in towing capacity? Nope.
Got a diesel? Nope.
10 year, 100,000 mile powertrain warranty? Nope.
Got the single largest vehicle platform in the world? Nope.
Got a hybrid? Nope.

Robert_Nashville

Right, right, I keep forgetting; it’s only Nissan that isn’t selling half-ton pickups – the fact that financial professionals and industry experts are wondering if Ford or GM will even still be in business ten years from now has nothing to do with how many trucks they are or aren’t selling in the past 24 months nor does the fact that the big three's truck sales are down 10% just in the first half of 2006 after a dismal 2005 have anything to do with it either.

Yes, gas prices are dropping but truck sales are not coming back to pre-$3/gal levels and is a major reason why GM had an $11.2 Billion loss in 2005 and why their bonds were dropped to junk bond status and that, Sparky, IS the REAL point.

Apparently you think that GM's "next" truck will compete in a vacuum and that Ford, Dodge, Nissan and Toyota will just sit by and do nothing. You had better hope that GM's leadership isn't so obtuse as to think that way.