my fav:

 

That is the point. Why buy a 2010, 2011, 2012, or 2013 Impala when you can get the 2010 Taurus. That is why the next Impala needs to be out in 2010 as a 2011 as originally planned instead of coming out 1Q 2013.

The only people that will buy Impalas will be those that can get them for dirt cheap. That is not how you run a company, GM should have learned this from the Malibu were the new 2008+ sells for on average $5000 more than a 2007 Malibu.

 

i agree 100% but GM doesn't have the money for an all new one so what i'm saying is a redo inside and as much as they can outside would be the best option right now. they do need it out ASAP too.

 

FWIW the base G8 is only $1990 more than a base impala.

 

The ironic thing is they will lose a boat load of money and market share by not putting out the new Impala in 2010.

guionM probably knows best, but I'd be willing to bet the 2011 Impala development is 98% complete. After all it shares EPII with the new Buick Lacrosse.

100,000 Impalas a year * 3 years * $3000 in extra rebates to sell them = $900,000,000 in lost revenue based on my lose math.

 

as we all know this is just frustrating to watch.

 

Fair question. Fair assumption.


When the '04 GTO came out, I had quite a bit of money saved for a down payment, as I was still in my previous career, and had been waiting to buy one for over a year.

The first GTO I saw and was ready to buy was a gorgeous black 6 speed at the dealer nearby in Seaside California (I was still living in Monterey at the time).

Unfortunately, instead of the 32K pricetag I expected, the dealer stuck on a surcharge that priced the car at $48,000 and wouldn't budge This was in March, a few months after the car had been out). Checked on a few other dealers in and outside the area. Lowest selling price? $42 grand. San Diego & Phoenix, ditto. Yes, I directly talked with all the sales people, and at least 3 sales managers. I periodically looked around for the next number of months before I got disgusted and decided to instead pick up another Thunderbird SC and restore it. It was this time I came accross a B4C that was assigned to a single officer that was going up for sale, and I bought it as well.

Pontiac dealers were scalping the living daylights out of the GTO, and turning people who actually wanted the car away. There in Seaside, about 500 feet away at the Ford dealer was one of the last 2004 Cobras. Still new. And guess what? The dealer was selling it for sticker price....far less than what Pontiac dealers were scalping GTOs for!! Same with a Mustang Cobra that was up at Serremonte Ford by San Francisco.

I brought up the scalping with few people within GM, including an email to Pontiac's media person at the time. I even included information on what other people were experiencing, from gross overpricing to requiring signing letters of intent to buy or non-refundable deposits simply to take a test drive. I pointed out how this was souring people who were actually wanting to buy the GTO.

The reaction? A collective shrugging of the shoulders, wringing of the hands, and a paraphrased "Well, what can we do about it??"

I could have bought that Cobra down the street, but at the time, it still seemed certain that GM would still make a Zeta coupe here in the US. I also knew Chrysler was working on a RWD coupe, and my friend at Holden seemed convinced that the next Ute would end up here. So I kept myself busy with my 2 favorite cars. Although I generally liked the new S197 Mustangs (and rented one for the Camaro unveiling), their cheap interior materials (especially the dash) left me cold.

Then the Challenger and Camaro headed to production.

The Holden Commodore came to the US as a Pontiac.

The reason I haven't leapt on the G8 is because I don't want a 4 door, and (even more important) I want a manual on my next car. Having to spring $40,000 to get one is a non-starter.

I was ginned up, however, to buy the G8 ST. Even if it just came with an auto, it was the perfect all-round car/truck for me and what I need, especially at about $30 grand. It was unique enough to be cool, and in Oz, they are quicker than the sedans.... however, I won't be buying that now since this all-but free-to-Pontiac vehicle won't be coming here to the US.

You are 100% right in that I'm a fan of GM-Holden vehicles. Save a time in the late 70s and a bulk of the 80s they have kept RWD and performance V8 alive. But Holden has kept these cars relatively affordable... and kept manual transmissions available without having to shell out top dollar for them.


Unlike what seems to have become the norm for many people today, I don't buy a new car to simply swap it ever 4 or 5 years, & I refuse to lease. I have no problem buying a year old car since it takes a huge depreciation hit the 1st year.

However, I HAVE been ready for a new car for about 5 years.

Since I'm going to keep whatever I buy for quite awhile, I want it to be exactly what I want. I might compromise on a used car that if I don't like it, I can sell it at roughly the same amount I paid. But I don't ask for the impossible, am willing to look at other brands that offer what I want, and therefore have no need to compromise.

All I ask for is simply a well made, comfortable, very quick, manual transmissioned, rear wheel drive, vehicle that seats 4 or 5, and is preferably a coupe, that is a great value and costs within spitting distance of $30K.

That's right smack in Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang territory. One of those cars are likely to wind up in my posession when I move and no longer have to park on street (on street parking in San Francisco is just as risky as parking on street in New York City) and I get my mom's situation back home straightened out (long story, but pushes any new car purchase to the end of the year, at the very least).



I've lost count of the number of posts I've made commending not only the value of the Camaro SS, but of the absolute steal the 300 horse, hot handling V6 Camaro is (by every account I've heard and read from those who have driven the car). I also praise the G8 as perhaps the best sedan being sold in the US currently (unless you have a money is no objective mentality, and like the letters B-M-W). Also lost the number of times I've had to explain the reasons why vehicles like these tend to be far heavier than whatever ideal weight number they feel a car should be.



So, you are right in that I haven't pulled the trigger on a new car. And the other side of that coin is that over the past 5 years, there hasn't been a new car I'd actually pull the trigger on.

The GTO was scalped without any effort to control it. By the time prices came down, the damage was done... & besides, GM had even better things promised.

The G8 not only is a sedan, but someone forgot to ship the manual over with the car.... without having to spring 40 grand for it.

I like the 300C and Charger, but there's no manuals and I feel like I'm driving a small, chopped truck from the driver's seat.

Ford only now got around to fixing Mustang's horrid interior materials.

GM only just now got around to making a Camaro.



In the meantime, I've found other vehicles to keep me content... which happen to include 1 of only 583 2002 B4C Chevrolet Camaros (and 1 of about 95 bought by the CHP which have the unique bumper loudspeaker vents that work well as front brake cooling ducts with the speakers removed ).

A car that happens to be my 3rd 4th gen Camaro, my 4th Camaro altogether, and my 9th General Motors vehicle.

 

why not a used GTO?

 

Probably because here in northern California 6.0L/M6 GTOs are still hard to find, and when you can find one the seller wants 2/3's the price of a brand new 2010 Camaro SS.

 

I had the Sportwagon as my PC wallpaper the day the pictures hit the 'net. They are still in common rotation. But the Sportwagon will never hit the states.

While the 300hp V6 + manual trans is an option for the Camaro, it isnt for the G8, and never will be. Poor man's BMW idea is gone.

Someone forgot that it could have been a Coupe, Sedan, Wagon, and Ute. Someone forgot that you could get a V6 or two V8s - all with automatic or manual. And the idea of offering a possible V6 diesel is long since gone...


But then again they called it a "G8" when it should have been "Grand Prix".

And the Grand Prix cannot be replaced by a Malibu or Impala. It gets replaced by a Mazda or Nissan.

And fleets or otherwise, having a "sore thumb boring POS" Impala just gives the media something MORE to throw tomatoes at and shout that old GM is still alive. GM cant have a single lame product anymore.

 

plane tickets are cheap.

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=670294

 

I was taken to task about not buying a "new" car.

It was a very fair & honest question given my criticisms, and I gave an honest answer.

From strictly my standpoint, GM botched the Holden cars buy not reigning in dealers that were simply driving away business of people who had money and were ready to buy as I was, and actually turning them off of ever dealing with Pontiac dealers ever again in this lifetime.

The new Commodore came here as a G8, and even though I don't want a sedan (I passed up getting a Charger R/T with the road & track package my sister decided against although she got the dealer down to 28K on a 36K sticker!).... and I want a stick on my next car. I praise the G8 GT on it's own merits as an exceptional car, but it isn't what I personally would spend the next 4-6 years being in debt for (as with every objective automotive writer who has a preference for a type of vehicle, but gives honest opinions on vehicles they wouldn't buy themselves).

If I were to buy used again, GTOs, Mach1s, & Cobras are at the top of my list, pretty much in that order.

But I'm intrested in buying new at the end of the year. GM blew it by cancelling the G8 ST. But I'm still intrested in the Camaro, the Dodge Challenger, and look forward to comparing the 2. Mustang, although they cured the interior, isn't the steal it was anymore. By the time I'm ready to buy, the new 5.0 will be out.

I will say that with used CTSvs dipping into the mid 20s, and I haven't seen an abused one yet, it's has my attention though.

Very true.

I asked Darth to let me know when he was ready to sell his blue one, but I think he forgot.

 

It appears that everyone is aware of this.... outside of GM.

I will likely refrain from bringing this up here anymore after this post because it seems I'm striking a nerve with people I have a ton of respect for and whose friendship I value. But it seems that there is a point where there is too much logic and not enough appriciation from those on the outside and how this all looks.


There isn't a single person on this site who doesn't fall under the term "Troll" who wants to see GM fail. Even hardcore Ford fans don't want GM to fail, not because of the fact it will drag Ford down with it, but because there is the desire to continue that long term rivalry that goes back not to our dads, but or dad's dads, and in some instances, even farther. However, any critcism seems to throw one into a camp of those wanting to see the destruction of GM. There isn't anything farther from the truth. There is no reason to doubt the sincerity of anyone here, especially those who have a history with GM (or even Ford or Chrysler). We are in a time where Team US is more important than Team Ford, or Chevy.

GM is going down, but even mentioning that there's a problem is going to get you at least some strong words from people inside GM.

Postponing a bread and butter car like the Impala for 2 years during a very critical time on the market is a massive, if not fatal mistake. The Impala was not a ground breaker when it came out back in 2006. Today, it's 2009 and with the next one now not due till 2013, that's 6 years with a car that was OK when it came out attempting to compete with key competition coming out from Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan over the next couple of years. The only weapon GM will have to move the Impala against these cars will be discounts and incentives.... not exactly the thing you need when you are trying to actually make money on the things and paying back a debt that would sink most medium sized countries.


Being critical of pumping money into trucks at the expense of cars is instead translated into the idea that "trucks are dead", and no longer sell. Far away from what is meant.

The Chevrolet Cruze is a car that GM needs, without question. Camaro shows that GM still has a pulse, and generates press and excitement at a time GM desparately needs it. The Malibu is already a key car for Chevrolet & GM as a whole. But they are about to pull the plug on their 2nd biggest car division, Pontiac.

When the economy does start to rebound, the pent up demand for automobiles is first going to show up in the family car... the midsize car. People are going to go for the best car they can get that they can afford. If they kept a job during this downturn, that means they are going to be willing to pay a little more to get something that offers the most for the money, but also is a visual statement of optimism and flash as was the case during other economic recoveries.

Ford will have a new Taurus.

Chrysler if it survives, will have new LX cars.

Nissan, Toyota, and Honda will have new or at least restyled family cars.

GM will have the same Impala it's been selling since the fall of 2005.

But at least it will have a $40,000 Volt.

 

Well, it was a lease, and I ended up using the lease pull ahead to get out 6 months early, due to changing family needs.

Would have been a fun ride home from Ohio to California!

 

He's supposed to call me about his Corvette