After alot of quality time & over a couple of thousand miles in this rental Mustang, I think I have a pretty clear perspective as to what the next Camaro needs to be and things I feel GM needs to do to ensure it's success.


1. GM needs to be ready to ignore some of the more whiny elements of Camaro's fan base. They aren't looking out for Camaro's future.

Anyone coming to this site in order to get a handle on what the next Camaro should be (much like what Ford did for direction with the Mustang), they are going to go away disgusted. They will see plenty of "I'll never buy a GM product again if...", but no actual viewpoint, information or input that will increase Camaro's sales and guarantee it's survival. Someone said it best in another thread, there are people here that don't want to see the Camaro return.


2. Keep focused on what Camaro has been & keep the formula. There's too many people who want to move Camaro someplace else. Don't forget what made Camaro what it is!

Camaro was NEVER the ultimate performance car. Camaro was also NEVER a world class automobile. Any advice taking Camaro in that direction should be backhanded into last month. Camaro is about performance on the cheap and agressive looks. Today's market demands quality assembly & materials, so that much is a given.



The new Mustang is a really good car. There's alot there that GM needs to learn, but there's also alot of openings it leaves GM to make the 5th gen better.

1. Make the interior a place you want to spend time in.

Mustang's interior is a nice place to spend a day (or 600 miles). The industrial interior look doesn't cut it anymore. It looks cheap. Pay more attention to details and how the interior feels.

GM has a big opening here. Mustang's interior looks top notch (awesome steering wheel & great looking back seat), but the door panels and instrament panel is all hard plastic.


2. Make a base model to be proud of!

Base Mustangs have never been worth a warm pittle of spit. But THIS new base Mustang is something else. It's shockingly quick, well equipted, handles extremly well, and in no way resembles a "stripper" model. At a price just under $19,000, it's no wonder I'm seeing these things everywhere.

GM's opening here is that Chevy has always been about value. Design can go a long way (the old base Camaros felt like base Camaros). Don't spare the trimmings. People buy coupes because of style or personal expression. It shouldn't look like an entry level Neon inside.


3. Make a "Right" size Camaro.

The Mustang feels a bit too big. At 5'9" with the seat jacked up, I still have a fist-width amount of room above my head. Ford could have easily cut 3" off the height without anyone noticing loss headroom inside. The trunk is almost too big for this type of car. From the drivers seat, the car feels alot bigger than it is. A Camaro with the same seating position with a lower roof height, perhaps less rear overhang, and less overall length would be a winner in my book as long as it doesn't compromise entry/exit.


4. Make a profit!

Ford happens to have a huge Mustang fan whose name is on the side of their building. GM doesn't have that luxury with the Camaro. Right now, GM has a few top people fighting hard to get the next Camaro on the streets. But these people won't be around forever (especially if GM's profits don't turn around ASAP). The way to ensure Camaro's future is to make sure it's profitable to the point it's a permanent part of GM's portfolio. That way the next Ron Zarella team won't look at the car as an albatross around the company's neck and take the 1st opportunity to kill it again.


5. Finally, Don't get tunnel vision on performance.

Reading this forum, one would get the idea that a Camaro with a hugely powerful engine & IRS would sell like gangbusters. But reading the marketplace comes up with an entirely different set of priorities. Any bonehead can make a car quick, and there is alot of pressure to put IRS on the car. But focus on the things that is going to make the car desired by everyone. Understand that the majority of buyers are going to go by seat of the pants and visuals to judge the car. Focus on that. If it boils down to choosing between spending $300 on the interior or IRS, go for the interior.

 

I am a huge fan of the Mustang. I dont want the Camaro to go that way though. Its almost too tame of a car. It needs more passion.

 

#6. To hell with IRS, the IRS and ... well... thats all.

Buy a used Vette if you just like replacing CV boots and axles.

 

 

??

My point is while I love the Mustang (actually the GTO falls in this mold as well), its not raw enough. I drove a GT months ago and could have had it for sticker after waiting a year. I chose to drive home in my 01 z28 because it was missing some small thing that would have made it great.

 

I can't believe people on this board think that the Mustang is the only competition the Camaro (or whatever it's called) will have.

I understand that in the V8, RWD field choices are very limited, but it won't always be.....some of the V6 imports are getting good hp numbers......while selling NO live axle cars.....

 

 

My point was that after guy specifically said most people on this board will respond to questions of what a camaro needs to be with trite useless generalities about "passion" "edge" or "like a camaro".

You responded with just such a generalization.

 

I'm not inflexible, I know the 4th Generation Camaro formula did not work, and I know the car needs some changes to be a real competitor again. Even with all that said, the next Camaro must retain a "Camaro" identity....I do not want a "Chevrolet Mustang" as some have put it. The next Camaro needs only be world class in its segment.

 

I agree the base model has to be a home run, when compared to the Mustang. I don't think it must have IRS , but with it being a posible future Mustang option, I hope just to keep up, it would also be a possibility on future Camaros. I would not want to give up on the many other much needed improvements for it though, as I too believe they are required for it to be a hit. I hope those in charge of it, are reading this stuff, as well as spending some quality time behind the Mustang wheel as we type. Oh great post Guy.

 

Good point Doug, bout the V6 hp #'s, but what kind of Torque are they makin'?

 

guiom, very good narative on the base model !!!!

I will demonstrate................

Everyone on this site likes to equate V6 Mustangs with "chick cars," or "secretary cars." I think that Ford has really abolished that entire stigma with the new car.

The new V6 Mustang starts at around $19K (I paid $18K for my 1991 Mustand GT on an ancient platform (even at that time) that was only marginally quicker than the V6 stang of today). For that price, you get a car with a world class platform, excellent acceleration, good ride and handling, head turning looks (I realize that is subjective, but come-on........... the majority of people love these things), good standard equipment, and an aftermarket that will allow you to customize the car to be anything you want it to be.

Anyway, yesterday I had to run some errands in town. While I was coming home, I was sitting at a light, and saw a new '05 Mustang V6, in black. It did not have the gay pony stripes on the rockers. There were two studly guys in it, who thought they were all that (dark shades, stance behind the wheel that just reeks "you want some of this???")............ and this was in a V6 Stang !!!!!

Remembering my 1991 GT, with its horrible interior (hey, I did the best I could with it), limp noodle platform (again did the best I could with sub-frame connectors, g-load brace, and strut tower brace), stock rear drums (far cry from V6 rear discs, much less GT rear discs), and horrible fit and finish............ I was actually jealous. I loved my '91, and made it what I wanted it to be (low 13's N/A, over 1g handling, and 60-0 in 115 ft)............. but in the end, I had spent $30K (including the car) to accomplish that........... and I did the majority of the labor myself.

For Mr. "its too tame," you have to admit. This car strikes a cord with young and old. There is no better compliment to a car, than to have someone who knows NOTHING about cars, being able to point to a new Mustang and say............ "Hey, there goes a new Mustang." The car just oozes Mustang from every pore, and can be mistaken for nothing else. In a world of shapeless amoebamobiles.......... that has to be the highest compliment any car can get.

Lets just hope a future Camaro can brag about the same thing.

 

Imports and torque are an oximoron....

Honestly, I'm not as upset about the live axle IF they retain an IRS option for the performance models.....but ABSOLUTELY NO MACPHERSON STRUTS!!!!!!

 

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Quote:
The Mustang feels a bit too big. At 5'9" with the seat jacked up, I still have a fist-width amount of room above my head. Ford could have easily cut 3" off the height without anyone noticing loss headroom inside. The trunk is almost too big for this type of car. From the drivers seat, the car feels alot bigger than it is. A Camaro with the same seating position with a lower roof height, perhaps less rear overhang, and less overall length would be a winner in my book as long as it doesn't compromise entry/exit.


for those of us 6' or better,the new stang fits just right.With my mach 1 my head hit the roof and side support unless reclined too far back.I now have plenty of headroom.My wife is 5'6 and she gets the seat up all the way and she is comfortable.
also,I like the big trunk.and with the 1000 watt stereo, you need the room for the sub in the trunk.

 

That was my point exactly Doug there is none(or not enuf fer me). I also agree with you on the IRS issue!