New RAV4 and why every GM should be engineered to use the LS4

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Dec 13, 2005 | 01:58 PM

#31

Beanboy

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Joined: Sep 1998

Posts: 233

Re: New RAV4 and why every GM should be engineered to use the LS4

GM having so many V6s is damn silly. A low/medium/high content 3.6L based on CR/CAM/exhaust/variable valve and lift changes would be enough to separate the use of the motor in various applications, along with keeping most of the guts the same. Be a great motor combined with the new 6-speed auto Ford/GM have worked on.

Last edited by Beanboy; Dec 13, 2005 at 02:01 PM.

Dec 13, 2005 | 03:11 PM

#32

HAZ-Matt

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Joined: Mar 2001

Posts: 4,000

From: TX Med Ctr

Re: New RAV4 and why every GM should be engineered to use the LS4

You wouldn't even have to change the guts. You could probably get away with changing spark and fuel curves, and if you were really devious through electronic throttle manipulation, which would make the difference in cost to produce the motors almost zero.

Dec 13, 2005 | 06:25 PM

#33

teal98

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Joined: Jul 2001

Posts: 3,132

From: Santa Clara, CA

Re: New RAV4 and why every GM should be engineered to use the LS4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beanboy

There really are three major designs, and one is going away soon. That will leave the 60 degree OHV and the 60 degree DOHC. The purpose of the OHV is to allow them to build cheaper Chevys and Pontiacs, which the purpose of the DOHC is to help sell in markets where people count valves and camshafts. There would undoubtedly be savings in R&D and support if GM just had the DOHC design, but GM believes they're offset by the higher manufacturing cost of the DOHC. I don't have enough info to independently confirm or contest that notion. However, I have to believe that GM has studied the issue pretty carefully and that if they thought they'd save more money overall with just one design, they'd do it.

Dec 13, 2005 | 07:03 PM

#34

Beanboy

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Joined: Sep 1998

Posts: 233

Re: New RAV4 and why every GM should be engineered to use the LS4

"However, I have to believe that GM has studied the issue pretty carefully and that if they thought they'd save more money overall with just one design, they'd do it."

Umm, we are talking about GM here remember!

Dec 15, 2005 | 11:35 PM

#35

Suaveat69

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Joined: May 2002

Posts: 167

From: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: New RAV4 and why every GM should be engineered to use the LS4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gold_Rush

Buying public has this perception that v8's are less fuel efficient even though we know that isn't always the case.

So the engine i would push more within GM isn't the Ls4, but the HF 3.6 Dohc. Why GM doen't have this as the bread and butter v6, i don't know. Right now, every other company is pushing high-powered multi-cam v6's in their lineup. Even the smaller companies can afford to do this...even equally Cash strapped Ford is rolling out a new 250hp 3.5 Dohc that has provisions built into it to allow room for output to frow 270hp+.

If Toyota can use the 3.5 in their premium Lexus and Avalon vehicles while still finding applications for it within the regular Toyota line, GM can do the same with the 3.6 Dohc as well.

I would say that the 3.4 and 3.5 have got to go. The 3.9's output is decent/nice, but will forever be rediculed by the press and such everytime it is compared to other multicam engines like the Nissan VQ, Toyota 3.5, etc... It is seen as inferior and perceptions is one of the things that plague GM. Their vehicles must be every bit as good as the competition...heck even being as good isn't good enough due to perceptions, they've got to be better to stand a chance.

This is why the 3.6 should be pushed more in volume. Bumb Cadillac's output to 300hp, and give 250-260hp variants to Pontiacs, Saturns, and Chevy's.

I know i wouldn't look at a 255hp 3.6L Dohc camaro in the same light as the previous v6's. Desireability would go up considerably, even within us v8-nuts

. All of a sudden, it becomes more than just a ho-hum base model.

Hwo about GM relaesing the V6 of the LS2(LS1) that they had like 8 years ago? say 4.5 litre LS2 V6 with all the bell and whistles and 300hp + great FE in a base Camaro and roll this into other cars, Malibu SS, GP, Trailblazer, Equinnox, ect. Screw the 3.6 DOHC, we don't need it. I read that the GTP G6 will get a 275hp version soon of the 3.9. They can make the power they just for some strange reason choose not ot.

Dec 16, 2005 | 06:20 AM

#36

91_z28_4me

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Joined: Jun 2001

Posts: 4,600

From: Pewee Valley, KY

Re: New RAV4 and why every GM should be engineered to use the LS4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suaveat69

GM has NEVER shown a 4.5 L LS based V6. Also the engine wouldn't be naturally balanced and would need balance shafts adding to the weight, design of the block cost, and manufacturing cost. Basically it was cheap to do it to the 4.3 back in the mid 70s and to use it till now but to do it all over again it would be better to make a tall deck version of the 60° V6.

Dec 16, 2005 | 07:53 AM

#37

96_Camaro_B4C

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Joined: Aug 2002

Posts: 3,650

From: Indianapolis, IN

Re: New RAV4 and why every GM should be engineered to use the LS4

Quote:

Originally Posted by 91_z28_4me

GM has NEVER shown a 4.5 L LS based V6.

Doesn't mean there was never any work done on one.

But I don't think that is the direction they will be going.

Dec 16, 2005 | 09:16 AM

#38

91_z28_4me

Registered User

Joined: Jun 2001

Posts: 4,600

From: Pewee Valley, KY

Re: New RAV4 and why every GM should be engineered to use the LS4

Quote:

Originally Posted by 96_Camaro_B4C

Doesn't mean there was never any work done on one.

But I don't think that is the direction they will be going.

I know Joe I chose my words carefully. But I agree that they aren't doing that again. I belive the I6 will be standard in the 900 pickups if for no other reason than it won't have to change in a few years to keep up with the competition, it would already have the highest standard HP and probably Fuel economy.