...that handled better, got better fuel mileage, and braked much better.

I knew someone would go there so I thought I would.

I decided to post my thoughts on what we could see with this new chassis from a thread on GMI:

The LSx engine series would likely not go into this chassis. It would be resevered for the larger, midsize and up, Corvette, and trucks. There could however be plenty of room for near 300 hp HV V6s. Throw DI and a hotter cam into the 3.9 with some programming and you could easily have a high power, high economy v6. Make it an aluminum block and you would also have a low weight engine for a small car. Zeta, really it is VE the name Zeta right now is dead, is actually fullsize and midsize. The LWB VE's are fullsize and the SWB cars are the same track but shorter. Both are quite wide. I doubt the Camaro, its sisters, or the VEs will be wider than 76" but still that is quite wide. The 79" width for the Camaro concept was for show. It was an exaggeration of the production model and conveyed the ideas VERY well.

The size of this new RWD chassis would probably be the size of the SWB deltas but wider. I would expect it to as wide or a little wider than Kappa BUT with more length and height.

EPII should grow in length and width if the next Malibu is truely to replace the Impala. Also this would give the next Signum plenty of executive size for GME with a small number of imported VEs for the truely high end. Lets not forget that Delta is not continuing for much longer. GME didn't like Delta and they still don't the next gen global compact cars will be Astra based not Delta based so they could be smaller than the Cobalt and Ion.

 

I think the idea is, to base these cars around Ecotec engines.

 

According to the Feb '06 issue of motor, the current estimate is that the Holden VE cars will be 230kg heavier than the current (VZII is it?) models. That seems a little excessive to me, but if it's true, that means the V8 Commodore will be over 4000 pounds, or about the same as the Chrysler LX or Cadillac STS V8 models. 230kg is a bit over 500 lbs for the metric-challenged.


If this is the chassis for the next Camaro, that leaves a lot of lightening work for the engineers!

 

Small RWD cars eh? Man I wish Cobalts were RWD. I'd love a Cobalt in rear or all wheel drive to beat on everyday and have my Camaro(s) for whenever I felt like. I hate FWD.

 

Question is how did Holden build the Torana concept?? Its a driveable concept so in essence the engineering is already done yes?

 

I'm not sure Anthony. Was it 'real' engineering or cobbled up just for the concept?

But it would sure be a shame if the Camaro, (and Monaro replacement), come out too heavy and bulky, and miss being part of a possible new, smaller, lighter, sportier, program by just afew months.

 

Not Kappa. It isn't a versitile chassis.

I know for a fact that Bob Lutz isn't getting all the things done he'd like to because of the limited finances of GM, and the fact that GM has an approval system geared differently than what he's used to at Ford and Chrysler. Yet at the same time, he's both working within and changing the system at the same time.

From the moment he set foot in GM and got the Kappa on track for production, he's wanted a chassis that would spawn a series of profitable though not necessarily high volume small RWD niche cars, including sedans, coupes, mini crossovers, and cars like the Solstice. But he isn't an engineer or a finance wiz, and can only provide direction.

He first said Kappa would be the chassis, and then it seems engineering and costs sidelined that idea. Now it seems he's indicating that Zeta is that chassis, but we still have to see if the public accepts RWD in volume cars (all the LXs combined roughly equal what Impala alone sells).

Lutz is no doubt a 1st level car enthusiast. I strongly believe that despite having a beancounter history, so is CEO Rick Wagoner (sending Camaro back to be redesigned last year, and willing to accept losses now to bring out exciting cars in the near future). But at the same time, as chairmen, their 1st priority is the survival of the company.

I know Buickman thinks that GM can get rich and famous by continuing to sell W and G bodys forever with his 10 point plan, but Lutz and Wagoner know what their doing.

They just need to find a way to do it quicker. And I think they know that.

 

Jack Keebler is a good guy, and his favor of rear-wheel drive isn't entirely surprising. If you remember when he was with Motor Trend, he seemd to take great pleasure in muscle-car comparos, tests of Ford SVT's experimental Mustangs, etc. Seems like he has a real love of those sorts of cars.

__________________
AUTIV
Performance-car news, reviews, and history

 

Underlying all this discussion about "small", I would like to add a point that transcends 2-3 years and jumps ahead 10 years or more...

After spending so much time in Europe last year, I find myself still amazed at their reception of the Smart car line. You see them everywhere over there, parked sideways in a parallel spot, on a sidewalk, crammed into a spot for a motorbike, etc. Yet you also see them on the Autobahn doing 90mph! I rode in one several times - a coworker rented it and we went to dinner and sight-seeing in it several times - it really wasn't that bad. They have really caught on over there, and I think they will catch on here too in the next few years. Given gas prices, maintenance costs, and parking issues (especially in congested Metro areas), they have a lot going in their favor.

Dieter Zetsche has announced plans to bring in a Chrysler competitor to the Mercedes Smart unit, and For has begun looking into bringing the Ka to the US to compete as well. Both of these are ready to go today if crash tests and emissions can be met (which I doubt will happen without tweaks). So you guys help me out a little, what does GM have in Asia or Europe that might be in the same class?

Seriously, I think this market is about to explode in the US as people move away from gas-guzzlers. I think it would be wise for GM (and Ford) to concentrate on grabbing market share in that sector as it grows instead of trying to come to the party late and overtake share.

 

There is always the 6th Gen

 

HAH! Round about 2021.

 

There was a Smart running around Monterey for a while last year when they were shooting a movie or something. It's astounding how short that thing is!

As for GM Asia, GM has nothing. Most all Asian countries have serious tarriffs, and local content rules. That's why GM was intrested in hooking up with Daewoo. If I'm not mistaken, there is an Asian version of NAFTA where cars within the region can be moved around and sold.

The smallest car GM sells in the region right now is the same car we get here as the Aveo. There's also a 3 door hatch version that we haven't gotten.... yet.


Ford owns part of Mazda, and therefore relies on them for market penetration in Asia. The smallest car actually made by Ford sold in the region is the European Festiva. From Mazda it's the Mazda 2 (no I'm not making this up). It's roughly the same size and shape as the Aveo. In Japan, Mazda also seems to have a countless number of mini "Niche" vehicles as small or slightly smaller that seem to spring up and disappear pretty quickly.

Currently something called the "G Special" is what they have in Smart territory.

Trust me. You won't like it.

http://www.carol.mazda.co.jp/limited/g-special/

 

Not Kappa, eh? That sucks, I thought they meant "Small" when they said small. The Cobalt is too big for my tastes(with that kind of car). If I have a car powered by a four, I want it to be fairly small/light(Solstice-Sky sized), that way it still has a chance of actually being fast.

Too bad I'm broke and I'm probably going to be buying a 96-97 miata in the near future...Money issues don't always pan out like you hope they do :'(

 

I believe that GM wants it based on Kappa. But to get a rear seat and high volume buildability from Kappa means an essentially new platform, lots of money and some time.

We'll see what happens.

 

Some speculation.....

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a Firebird proposal in here somewhere. An Ecotec/Turbo Ecotec Firebird....