is the new GTO supposed to go after M3's?
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is the new GTO supposed to go after M3's?
This idea just kinda came into my head. I dont really know, but is kinda seems like it could be. both are high performance, 2 door, 2+2 seating premium cars. Anyone else think this could be a possibility (if a small, unintentional one or something)?
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From: Fletcher, NC, US
The thought of a more or less entry level GM division such as Pontiac going head to head with a BMW could've been a joke a few years ago, but I really believe GTO will be a cut above the rest at GM when it gets here, while BMW fundamentals are taking a step backwards lately according to so many people. Somewhere in the middle, the two will clash. More so in 2005 and beyond, as people get gradually convinced that "yes, a GM product really is so good", not to mention "wow, I can't find any new ones OR any used ones! where did they all go so quick?".
Are there any M3 redesigns scheduled anytime soon? If so, I really hope they go to the Z4 crackpipe. That thing looks acceptable, but it does not look like a BMW.
Are there any M3 redesigns scheduled anytime soon? If so, I really hope they go to the Z4 crackpipe. That thing looks acceptable, but it does not look like a BMW.
Last edited by kizz; Dec 21, 2002 at 03:11 AM.
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The new GTO will be a serious competitor for the M3, at a much lower price. This is a modern platform, built with the design and manufacturing quality which has made Holden famous. And it's going to put a lot of BMW's to shame! 
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Originally posted by Darth Xed
I still don't see many more than a handful of serious BMW buyers considering any sort of Pontiac.
I still don't see many more than a handful of serious BMW buyers considering any sort of Pontiac.
Perhaps I should change what I said originally to: The GTO seems to appeal more to the BMW crowd that would like a BMW but can't afford one.
Last edited by Pentatonic; Dec 21, 2002 at 01:51 PM.
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From: Cincinnati, OH
Originally posted by Darth Xed
I still don't see many more than a handful of serious BMW buyers considering any sort of Pontiac.
I would think that the Cadillac CTS-V would appeal to that crowd much much more.
I still don't see many more than a handful of serious BMW buyers considering any sort of Pontiac.
I would think that the Cadillac CTS-V would appeal to that crowd much much more.
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If the GTO gets a LS6 or similar powered GEN IV SBC it will most likly spank that over priced over done German turd. I was playing with one on the toll way two days ago with me new 2002 Z06. It was sad how badly I handed that thing its ***. From the gate, on the big end. Just plain sad.
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Originally posted by Evil Turbo SS
If the GTO gets a LS6 or similar powered GEN IV SBC it will most likly spank that over priced over done German turd.
If the GTO gets a LS6 or similar powered GEN IV SBC it will most likly spank that over priced over done German turd.
I'd bet that you have never driven an M3. I haven't had the pleasure of driving the newest one yet...but I base my impressions on the last one.
I can say this much...if someone drives an M3 and doesn't feel absolutely blown away by it, or worse considers it a "turd", then I must conclude that they don't have a "gearhead" bone in their body.
Everything on it works darned near perfectly. The steering, the awesome brakes, the precise and smooth shifter (which is, BTW, positioned perfectly), the effortless power and smoothness of it's I6, the incredible dynamics and sophistication of it's chassis. All wrapped in a high quality interior.
The word "turd" doesn't even come to mind.
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From: Houston TX (Chicago/Evanston IL)
I have to seperate groups of friends. My gear head friends and my "German cars are so much better because they can find a way to replace one moving part for 7 moving parts yet get the same or less power for 5 times the cost." I have spent a decent amount of time in the new M3 and a amg clk 55 or whatever they call it. The M3 would bea great car for 40 grand not 55. Its slower than my ss was stock. I know it handles better but I got my SS for 27 fully loded. I figured it was worth about 10 grand more than my ss was. When will people realize that initial and long term quaility are 2 different things. German cars are no better in the long run and cost so much more to keep going. I cant justify adding 10 Gs to the cost of a car because it has a German badge on the hood. A 2002 Z06 out ran/stopped and handled a 110 grand 911 turbo in the sept 2001 issue of car and driver. Is the little difference in "fit and finish" worth 60 thousand dollars. I have been in many 911s and they are uncomfortable.
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The GTO is going after the M3, just like a Corvette goes after a 911 or a Viper.
It's a lower cost alternative with similar performance. A good performance value for the sporty coupe market, for people who want something a bit more refined than a Mustang or an F-Body.
On the note of the M3 costing so much...
- It's a BMW. A luxury brand with a luxury price. Why does a Caddy cost as much as it does? Why does a Lincoln Town Car cost almost twice what a Crown Victoria does? Same thing here.
- It's a luxury car. It has stuff like heated leather seats, and all sorts of crazy luxury car features. I can't think of them off of the top of my head, but there's a lot of stuff. If you ever look at the equipment on a BMW or a Benz or another luxury brand, there's a bunch of wierd stuff. My friend has a 2001 M3, riding in it feels like riding in a really nice luxury car, except he handed my Z28 it's ***** when I raced him.
Is it worth the extra money? Obviously, up to the buyer. But the price isn't all markup.
It's a lower cost alternative with similar performance. A good performance value for the sporty coupe market, for people who want something a bit more refined than a Mustang or an F-Body.
On the note of the M3 costing so much...
- It's a BMW. A luxury brand with a luxury price. Why does a Caddy cost as much as it does? Why does a Lincoln Town Car cost almost twice what a Crown Victoria does? Same thing here.
- It's a luxury car. It has stuff like heated leather seats, and all sorts of crazy luxury car features. I can't think of them off of the top of my head, but there's a lot of stuff. If you ever look at the equipment on a BMW or a Benz or another luxury brand, there's a bunch of wierd stuff. My friend has a 2001 M3, riding in it feels like riding in a really nice luxury car, except he handed my Z28 it's ***** when I raced him.
Is it worth the extra money? Obviously, up to the buyer. But the price isn't all markup.
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From: Ohio
Originally posted by MunchE
The GTO is going after the M3, just like a Corvette goes after a 911 or a Viper.
It's a lower cost alternative with similar performance. A good performance value for the sporty coupe market, for people who want something a bit more refined than a Mustang or an F-Body.
On the note of the M3 costing so much...
- It's a BMW. A luxury brand with a luxury price. Why does a Caddy cost as much as it does? Why does a Lincoln Town Car cost almost twice what a Crown Victoria does? Same thing here.
- It's a luxury car. It has stuff like heated leather seats, and all sorts of crazy luxury car features. I can't think of them off of the top of my head, but there's a lot of stuff. If you ever look at the equipment on a BMW or a Benz or another luxury brand, there's a bunch of wierd stuff. My friend has a 2001 M3, riding in it feels like riding in a really nice luxury car, except he handed my Z28 it's ***** when I raced him.
Is it worth the extra money? Obviously, up to the buyer. But the price isn't all markup.
The GTO is going after the M3, just like a Corvette goes after a 911 or a Viper.
It's a lower cost alternative with similar performance. A good performance value for the sporty coupe market, for people who want something a bit more refined than a Mustang or an F-Body.
On the note of the M3 costing so much...
- It's a BMW. A luxury brand with a luxury price. Why does a Caddy cost as much as it does? Why does a Lincoln Town Car cost almost twice what a Crown Victoria does? Same thing here.
- It's a luxury car. It has stuff like heated leather seats, and all sorts of crazy luxury car features. I can't think of them off of the top of my head, but there's a lot of stuff. If you ever look at the equipment on a BMW or a Benz or another luxury brand, there's a bunch of wierd stuff. My friend has a 2001 M3, riding in it feels like riding in a really nice luxury car, except he handed my Z28 it's ***** when I raced him.
Is it worth the extra money? Obviously, up to the buyer. But the price isn't all markup.
It's just not going to happen...
BMW buyers think BMW, Mercedes... maybe Lexus, Jaguar... and GM's is hoping Cadillac.... Cadillac is making strides in the right direction for that, but Pontiac will never, ever be a BMW competitor... it's just too 'low-brow' for these people... no matter what the car really is.
Plus all those thing you listed are reasons why BMW buyers buy BMW's... they want to spend extra money on their cars for perceived prestiege, etc...
Last edited by Darth Xed; Dec 31, 2002 at 12:27 PM.
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I can't see it really being a competiitor--
M3 is noticeably faster---well it might be--
I'll be surprised if the GTO can hit a hi--13
but I digress......
The GTO is supoosed to be 35K? (I figure 50K CDN)
and the M3 I think is 80K (CDN) even converted to USD--the M3 would be in a higher price range.
M3 is noticeably faster---well it might be--
I'll be surprised if the GTO can hit a hi--13
but I digress......
The GTO is supoosed to be 35K? (I figure 50K CDN)
and the M3 I think is 80K (CDN) even converted to USD--the M3 would be in a higher price range.