Far superior? How? Because of the 6.0L LS2 over the 5.7L LS1? The 5.7L LS1 was being phased out anyway. Certainly you can't mean styling. They're basically the same car except for those gawd awful hood scoops. Far superior? I just don't see it.

If you want to talk about far superior, and bush, how about the poor saps that bought a 2004 SSR which only came with an A4?

 

Personally, I would not be surprised if it is just a more accurate rating in 05 than in 04. Or, perhaps the conditions under which the LS2 was tested simply led to a lower rating? Consider this:

The 2004 A4 GTO was rated at 16/21 mpg. The 2005 A4 GTO is rated EXACTLY the same.

The 2004 M6 GTO was rated at 17/29 mpg. The 2005 M6 GTO is rated at 17/25 mpg.

The ONLY number that changed out of all of those is the highway M6 mileage. If the LS2 really used ~17% more than the LS1 under highway conditions, I see no reason why that shouldn't show up in both M6 and A4 trim. Perhaps not the same amount - but it should refect on both.

 

The M6 05 GTO is rated at 17city/25highway. The M6 04 GTO is rated at 17city/29highway.

My combined MPG in my stock 04 GTO is around 22mpg. On extended highway jaunts I'm able to pull around 26mpg.

 

As far as the MPG changes, didn't we post on here somewhere that they used the corvette numbers or something for the '04 model, and then used actual GTO parameters for '05 (ie. weight, aero, ect)?

 

Better late than never..

 

i don't know about there being a market, at this point i am still wondering about the car. At last i had heard something, Lutz dropped the new Zeta platform that was going to be what the camaro would evolve from. Now a few months later i get Motor Trend in the mail that says Holden has all kinds of plans for the frame and that they will be using it if at this point they already haven't started to yet. So i really hope that it does come back but i can't see why gm wants to have a 400hp and 500hp corvette, a 400hp gto to compete against what i guess is cobra's but then when u look at the GT there is nothing for it to run against. I tell you what if the camaro cam back today i bet you would see half as many of the new mustangs out there and i know that has got to be true because i know so many people that have bought a new mustang solely based upon that fact that there is no other option out there. They don't have 50k to put down on a vette and they don't much care for the current style of the GTO so the turned to their only other option at this time.....a Mustang. GM needs to stop sleeping on the camaro and get it back on the road quickly.

 

Even worse, a 300hp 5.3L. Couple that with the A4 and you had mid 15 second 1/4 miles. The 05 6spd Ls2 version shaves over 1.5 seconds off the 1/4 mile time. Big difference. By comparison, the 04 SSR is utter POS.

The difference isn't as big between the Ls1/Ls2 GTO's. You're looking at half a second improvement at best. But of the two, the Ls2 is obviously the more dersirable due to the extra 50 horses.

 

1. Car magazines are set up about 3 months before they appear on the news stands. Motor Trend sent their story to press about the same time a final decision was being made on NA Zetas, including the GTO. Their story is primarily based on December to January info before things changed.

2. Zeta ISN'T cancelled. If GM was going to produce Holden's cars here, they had to decide in January in order to get the tooling orders & development here done. GM North America decided on a lower cost "Zeta" that utilizes more parts that are in production in North America's cars than adopting those in Holden's.

3. We WILL have a RWD chassis, and Holden will still be involved. It's just that we won't simply be building restyled Commodores here in the US. That has very little bearing on the Monaro/GTO, believe it or not, outside of where the thing's built.

4. Instead of Monaro/GTO being made here, it's going to be made in Australia again if anywhere. It's made off Holden's Zeta, but was going to be made in North America. With North America out of the picture on that exact chassis, and Holden determined to make it even if they have to chainsaw someone to do it, it's a pretty safe bet that as soon as Holden finds a way to do it, they'll start making the cars themselves.

5. What makes you think "Mustang's competitor" was going to be on that particular architecture? Holden did ZERO work on a Camaro structure, which would have been lower than a Holden Commodore/Monaro based GTO, and likely have a totally different structure.

Nobody's sleeping.

 

What do you mean outside of Ls1 vs. LS2? That's a HUGE difference. The LS2 isn't just 18ci tacked onto an LS1, it also has a bigger cam, bigger heads and more compression.

 

I think this is an excellent thread. From all the stuff we've read and the buzz we've heard it seems that the Chevy Coupe will be arriving very late to the party and while we may all have faith it seems like GM is loosing out significantly by extending the introduction of these performance products.

Ford will have sold a great number by the time the Camaro hits the street and that lead time will translate to different editions and better upgrades etc. for the stang and GM will have their work cut out for them to have a world class product and also sustain that edge.

I hope that when they do arrive to the party they stun everyone and deliver a truly world class product but it's sad to see that it will take a while before we can get one.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if a car has been finalized in design etc. and is simply awaiting a chassis/structure... couldn't the legwork start right now to get prototype estimates about what will be required etc. once an approval comes for a certain chassis. For e.g. is the chassis is a modified Sigma.. shouldn't Engineers etc. start working on the hardpoints and obtain necessary data to help speed things up should they get an approval. I'm not talking about expensive stuff like building mules but rather doing everything possible on the computer. I know that GM spent millions investing in computer links to Australia to help aid in these kinds of processes.. shouldn't they use it to the fullest extent?

 

No..

 

Oh that settles it!

You are right, and everyone else is wrong.

 

Sorry, But I don't think that GM/ Camaro will be arriving late, if so then the dodge pony car will be also, there ins't many RWD V8 2drs right now, besides the Mustang..


IMO

 

Ok saying the second year GTO was far superior might have been a little off, but look at the sales. It has sold a ton more then the first year it came out.

As for the Camaro i just worry because more and more every day i'm seeing new mustangs. For the money there is not much that people can turn too. GTO being a higher price than a GT Stang. Boy i hope GM does not muff this one up.

 

I'm actually worried cause GM still doens't have the next gen of W-body replacement out for the Implala, MC, etc, that we've all been talking about..

And knowning how GM is a bit stretched for money now, I thinking we're not going to see any major work done on a Camaro til after those new models are released out first...