http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...t_drive_review

I don't see too many BMW 6-series coupes on the road, and when I do, they catch my eye. I've always thought of them as a German Camaro / pony car. One with lots of luxury trimmings, of course, but a "Camaro" in body type, size, etc. A little on the big side, high on style, and with a healthy dose of performance.

Anyway, BMW just released the redesigned 650i droptop. Dimensionally, the car could almost be a platform mate for the Camaro. (BMW is 2 inches longer, wheelbases are 0.1 inch apart, Camaro is an inch wider and a half inch taller...) What does the twin turbo 4.4L (400 hp, 450 lbft) G50i weigh? 4500 lbs!! (up from 4300 in the previous version). My heart still aches over the SS droptop weighing 4100 lbs, but the Camaro looks almost svelte by comparison. It is also, IMHO, far sexier looking, but that's beside the point. By the way, the 650i does NOT use a folding hardtop to get to that weight; like the Camaro, it has a softtop.

Of course, the BMW has many luxury features and options that a Camaro buyer will obviously go without. And it perhaps is more of a "Grand Touring" car than a near-"sports car" many of us consider Camaro to be. Nonetheless, they are nearly indentically sized, and both are 2+2 coupes / droptops that are high on style and power. And the 650 is still a BMW, fitting into their "ultimate driving machine" image, even if it is no M3.

I still hope the Camaro can lose some weight next time around, but I feel at least a little better after seeing this. (Also, Motor Trend reviewed the new SS droptop, and they called it an improved car over the coupe, despite the weight increase. That helps too. )

 

I'm not one to say, "well the Bimmer coupe is 4500 pounds so Camaro is doing it right." It's a BMW, and regardless of things like dimensions and performance people expect different things out of a 6-series as opposed to an American "pony car".

4500 pounds is embarrassing, but the upper-management guy who buys it probably doesn't care.

 

Note that I didn't say the Camaro is doing it right either.

4500 lbs is stunning; that is 8 passenger minivan territory, easily. All for the bargain price of $90k, too! But, Car and Driver seemed to really like the handling (though not the electrically-boosted steering feel) in this brief first drive.

I still say the Camaro needs a set of 275s up front (with corresponding chassis tuning), and the slight handling advantage held by the Mustang will more or less evaporate, 250 lbs weight disadvantage or no. A smaller overall diameter would help, too. Go to ~27 inch tires instead of the current 28s (up from 25.4 on the 4th gens).

Anyway, I just thought it interesting to see a Camaro-sized car weighing that much...

 

It's really not that hard to understand when they say that the car is butter smooth on almost any pavement no matter how hard you push it (lets see the Camaro get the same praise) . . . and when the interior looks like this (non-plastics weigh more):

 

Actually, the Camaro does get that sort of praise. It is a very competent handler; it just can't quite match the big g numbers or slalom speeds of the lighter (and wider front tire equipped) Mustang GT. The gripes about the Camaro's handling have not been about its composure, but its lower absolute limits relative to the more "nimble" Mustang.

As for the interior, of course the luxo stuff weighs more. It is still mostly plastic, though. Just thicker, softer plastic in some areas, but mostly plastic. Yes, it has a leather skin over the dash pad, but car interiors in general are pretty much plastic these days. Even the "wood" trim is a wood veneer over an artificial backing surface, not an actual hunk of maple or whatever.

I know these two car are far from being direct competitors; again, I just find it interesting. To me, this car (along with the Audi A5) is like a high-lux version of the Camaro theme. $90k vs $35k makes a big difference in the number of goodies one can have. Then again, at that price, you'd think you might get some more extensive lightweight material usage to help offset the soft touch dash and 80-way power seats.

I do find the powertrain story interesting. I've no doubt the Camaro's LS3 is smaller and lighter than the 4.4L DOHC twin turbo setup in the BMW, while offering more base horsepower and apparently equivalent fuel economy numbers. Not that I wouldn't love to rock that 4.4L turbo too...

 

I am not too optimistic about dramatic weight reductions in new models. The manufacturers have set aggressive goals, and everyone is talking a good game. But when it gets down to engineering and dollars and cents and market and regulatory requirements, I think it will be very tough to bring weight down significantly.

Instead, I think fuel economy improvements will be achieved through powertrain changes.

If the 3000 pound Prius can get 50mpg (CAFE number is probably closer to 60), then a 4200 pound full size Prius ought to achieve 40, which is a lot better than you'd get by just dropping a couple of hundred pounds off the Avalon, and cheaper than building it out of carbon fiber.

Then there's the Volt, which does even better on CAFE, and it's no lightweight.

Or even something as simple as the enhanced BAS on the 2012 LaCrosse....

 

That is one fugly mishmash of random shapes, textures, screens, *****, and finishes.

Too bad. BMW used to be good at managing their overall interior flow, but it looks like they stepped on the same banana skin that the E-Class Mercedes designers did.

 

Gee, let's compare fit, finish and interior between Camaro and an European luxury car that costs more than twice as much.

 

Go talk to the GM engineers and see what all they'd need to add to get the Camaro up to BMW's ride, interior, feature/content standards, etc, and then we'll see how many hundreds of pounds it gains.

Gee let's compare curb weights between a Camaro and a European luxury car that contains far more features and is expected to drive and feel like a high end luxury vehicle, vs something that just has to go fast, look good, and not be disgustingly cheap and ride horribly.

 

Not 400 pounds, especially if some of that money is used for lightweight materials.

The old 6-series weighed just about the same as the Camaro.

 

The Camaro is heavy.

 

I'm just curious.


Is the Camaro heavy?

 

Well at least you get the point.

 

I'm no automotive engineer. I suspect you aren't either...?

If not then we really don't know how much weight it'd gain.

All we do know is that the cars are very dissimilar in most ways other than dimensions.

 

If you think the 6 series is bad look up the specs on a Mercedes CL class. I believe they were in the ballpark of 4600 pounds.

Admittedly, it's a step higher on the luxury ladder than even the 6 series, and a bit bigger, I remember the back seat being usable at the auto show, but still for that much weight I might as well just build a V12 suburban, it would have single digit gas mileage just like the CL.