I just want to reinterate a few things to clear up some misconceptions.

GM IS COMITTED TO CONTINUE OFFERING COUPES.
GM has made this clear in statements from company reps (I suspect in response to Chrysler's Trevor Creed's view that coupes are dead). This is official.

GM IS COMITTED TO OFFERING A VARIETY OF RWD VEHICLES
There's been some confusion of late about GM, Zeta, & Kappa. GM's Zeta chassis is being developed by GM-Holden of Australia for use in Australia, China, Europe, AND North America. This is in concrete. It's going to happen. Period.

There is some rethinking going on with Kappa (outside of the 3 cars planned), but we are talking about cars that are additions to a division's lineup (as opposed to vehicles that are plugging holes or serving as replacements ), we won't miss anything if alot of these cars don't happen.

ZETA ISN'T IN TURMOIL
Zeta sedans (read Buick & Holden) are on track. GM is due to make decisions on Pontiac and Chevrolet Zeta based sedans this year. I don't know if it's final decisions, or final final decisions. But as far as Buick & Holden, it's on! GM even admits the upcoming FWD Buick is the last big FWD car... at least in Buick's showrooms.

GM IS WELL AWARE OF THE HOLE IN CHEVROLET"S LINEUP
GM is very, very, very, very aware that it needs a car to fill the hole left by Camaro. Chevrolet's dealers are aware, Chevrolet Motor division is aware, GM's product people are aware. Everyone is also very aware that the Mustang made a impact on the market. GM IS going to respond. However, things take time (though at GM, that tends to mean a long time).

GTO IS HERE TO STAY (for now)
GTO's sales are now running at or slightly above monthly projections. Actually, if GTO were to sell at the rate it's been selling for the past 4 months, it would easily sell over 25,000 annually (only 18,000 annually are planned).

With Chrysler getting away from coupes and Ford moving away from RWD (save Mustang and one other upcoming car), seems GM is going to be in a good position for enthusiasts in a few years.

.....going back to lurking mode.

 

Most of the "misconceptions" are at GM.

I guess this means that GM is commited to dull, frumpy FWD four seaters like the Monte Carlo and G6 coupe. I don't care one way or another.


Zeta? Kappa? BETA? It's all "Greek to me."

Anyway, I'm really glad that someone was sane enough to ditch the little, tiny Nomad micro station wagon. I'm still confused about the Torana might be effected but that isn't a biggie.



Hmmm....it sounds as if Zeta is quite a bit more "upscale" than we've been lead to believe. I wouldn't be surprised if Buick's Zeta(s) are at the same price point as the current Cadillac DTS.

Could it be that the Zeta platform is going the same way as the Sigma?

GM doesn't have time on its side.



1. Chrysler is getting away from cars in the midsized FWD coupe segment and moving towards more upscale and performance oriented products. (Think Firepower!) Still, I wouldn't discount any rumors of a rebadged version of new Mitsubishi Eclipse.

2. What we know for sure is that GM's Kappa roadsters are already projected as "money losers" for years to come. Is it any wonder that upper-level management is having second thoughts about more Kappa derivatives?

3. Judging by GM's current history, the Camaro "replacement" will be hideous, years late and uncompetitively priced.

 

my points
1. i wouldn't mind if the next Camaro was produced in Canada, or Australia for that matter, they speak English and are like America's brothers in everything. BUT THEY BETTER NOT DARE CONSIDER MAKING IT IN CHINA. THIS ISN'T A HAPPY MEAL TOY, ITS AMERICAN MUSCLE.
2. GM needs to shorten the leash on its dealers. I'm not saying the new mustangs aren't being marked up, but when you compare them to the early GTO fiasco you know what i'm getting at. GM could build an awesome rwd coupe just for me and even price it at 25k....but if the dealer turns around and want 30-35k for it, well, it will be just like the 4th gens. i wouldn't doubt it if some are still on the lots cause of dealers marking them up as the "last Camaro"

 

Oh man, not another one of these threads. I'm a lurker, but I stay up on 5th gen discussion just like most of the rest of you in here.

I think, like a lot of others, that GM started at the top with their "American Revolution". They HAD to keep Corvette exciting, and get Caddy out of it's FWD slump. They rushed SSR to market, and the severely underpowered "vehicle" didn't sell too well. I don't think more power will save this vehicle, though a lower price tag would help. Kill SSR and give the Silverado SS a super tourqey LS2. GTO was crippled by ridiculous market adjustment and other dealer silliness. It's a clean looking car with a nice interior and a 400hp LS2. Cobalt is light years ahead of Cavalier. There have been lots of posts of folks saying how impressed they were by the new Cobalt.

No one wants a rebadged Camaro and if we had gotten one last year that's what it probably would've been...a GTomaro or a CTS-V28. All the mistakes GM made over the last 10 years will *hopefully* get us a spankin' new Camaro THAT CAN AND WILL SELL, not a recycled one.

 

Ok, either I missed or forgot something. Solstice, Sky...what's the third Kappa? The Opel variant?

 

Yes.

 

Well, you're already right on one of the three. But, yeah, I'm worried about the other two. GM hasn't PRODUCED any car in the last 10 years that I would say is completely and totally beautiful. At best, they are pretty good. And of course, they price rebates into the MSRP these days, so I'm not expecting Chrysler 300 style (or Mustang GT style) reverse sticker shock.

 

GTO is selling awesome now!!! The LS2 GTO is going to kick ***, too bad production will be lower low supply high demand might = more dealers ripping people off.

projected monthly sales 1,500
Actual Dec. '04 sales = 2,952 (97% OVER GM expectations)


▲ C6 Vette = Best performance bang for the buck.
▲ LS2 GTO = Cobra performance for less money with an interior that look 15 yrs. newer
▲ Cobalt SS = Class leading coupe power, best in class interior, cheaper than RSX type S
▲ Monte SS = 300HP, Toyota, Dodge,and Honda FWD coupes don't have that.

We can always count on you for a negative GM post

 

The reason I think they sold so many GTO's in December was the awesome deals dealers were giving to people. They were trying to clear out their 2004 inventory before the 2005's came in. I say wait for sales figures from Jan, Feb, and March before saying the 2005's are flying off the lots.

 

From the looks of it, the 2005 GTO's are selling at a pretty good clip.

 

Yeah but won't you be deliriously excited about an SS version of those same cars?

Amen, brother.
All the coyness regarding the f body replacement has gone from being intriguing to tiresome to irritating. Even if it is a terrific performance car I'm not sure I'll care a whole lot about it unless its an unreal value too.

 

Hmm.... I wonder if GM will consider boosting GTO production back up for 2005, probably unlikely but you never know. I haven't seen an '05 yet, I would really like to see one with the body kit, and would really love to test drive one.

The SSR has really grown on me over the past couple of years. I would really consider buying one w/LS2 and 6-speed if the price was right. I think thats the only problem with the SSR is the price isn't right. For 30-35K I don't think it would have a problem selling, but $45K+ its too much.

 

...and the first ugly Corvette. Thank you Tom "Aztek" Peters.

...and an exterior that dates from the last decade. I mean, seriously, even with the LS2 the Aussie "Goat" is still Caterible (Catera + horrible).

The power isn't very impressive, the price is pretty stiff compared to the far more attractive '05 Mustang, the interior is still generic GM and the Cobalt still looks like a Crapalier.

A bloated coupe for the toupe crowd?



I just call 'em like they are. Perhaps you didn't notice that my 'Stang criticism eased up (a little) when the not-half-bad 2005 Mustang hit the street.

 

Not exactly a good gauge of how the car is selling. There were RIDICULOUS rebates available. My brother bought his 04 out the door for 21k. How much profit margin do you think there was there?

 

redzed, i noticed that in your whole post nothing was objective period.
everything you talked about was subjective (styling, etc.)
now, i respect your opinion but you seriously don't bring anything worthwhile to the table
stop bit***** about what you consider style
because i can guarantee you, all of the above cars (maybe not so much gto) are going to sell, whether you find them "a sight for sore eyes" or not