The Cummins is much harsher than the Duramax..and if I remember right does not make as much power. The Dmax is very quiet and refinded inside the truck..you bairly know it is a diesel. One of my employees has a mid 2000ish Cummins truck crossing 100K miles and it seems to spend as much time in the shop as it does on the road.

 

Chrysler has been improving although statistically they are somewhat behind the curve vs the other big name carmakers.

Anecdotally though - my sister bought a Sebring convertible new in 2000 and still has it. She has a short commute... but does drive it year-round in Ohio snow and humidity. Not a spot of rust on that car. The only glitches were an interior lighting problem and a small issue with a window seal IIRC. She's very happy with the car, and it is a joy to ride in.

 

Although I had stock in Chrysler (which converted to Daimler) for over 15 years, I have personally never owned a Chrysler product. However, my mom did. Also most of the vehicles I drove while in the Military and LE were Chrysler products, and they weren't exactly handled with kid gloves.

Chryslers are most certainly no worse in quality than anything else made by a US company. GM has had issues with transmissions & LS1s tend to use oil. Although Fords have been pretty much issue free on all vehicles they've brought out the past 7-8 years, many of their vehicles made in the 1990s had issues related to corner cutting and penny pinching that adversely affected their powertrains. I find that most people who talk about Chrysler making unreliable cars are people who have no exposure to them. Chrysler has a very strong reliability record regarding engines, and I have heard nothing about good things about their service department.

I personally know a person whom had an SRT4 that developed an engine problem. Instead of simply fixing the engine, Chrysler sent the dealer a whole new replacement engine. Unlike Mitsubishi, Chrysler doesn't void warranties for "autocross", and is pretty liberal with claims unless it's gross or lack of common sense abuse.

Chrysler's 300 and Chargers have also been solid and bullitproof, despite an early issue with the Mercedes Benz based automatics.


All that said, Chrysler's issue is in percieved quality. Their interior materials are hit in some and miss in others.

The inside of the Sebring is very stylish. But then you start touching things, and you feel how cheaply made everything actually is. All the LX cars feel solid. The materials inside the Challenger feel better than even a Camaro! Sit in a new Dodge Ram, and it feels on par with Ford's. Sit in a Dodge Dakota and it's materials make the thing feel like it was made in a 3rd world country. A Jeep SRT8 is on par with anything I've sat in. A Jeep Patriot isn't.


Financially, Chrysler was in perhaps the best of the big 3 from the early 1980s till Bob Eaton gave the company to Mercedes Benz, and they cleaned Chrysler out. Since 1999 (and the Charger concept that Chrysler planned to produce as a RWD vehicle based on the FWD LH chassis) Chrysler has been fighting for product or money...... Remember for a brief time about 4 or 5 years ago when it was Chrysler that was carrying Daimler as Mercedes Benz was running losses, and Smart was still a money pit? Even as recently as late last year, Chrysler had enough money to keep operating longer than GM (Chrysler would have went under this summer without government help... GM was about to shut down at the end of last December.


Chrysler needs consistancy in their material quality. Just like the Camaro represents the way GM should have been developing cars all along, the LX cars represent the material and NVH quality Chrysler should have in all it's cars.

Without it, they will continue to be seen (incorrectly IMO) as a maker of poor quality vehicles in the minds of the uninitiated.

 

I very much agree with that, although the LX cars arent my cup of tea, I recognize that they were very well engineered and I hope Chrysler can eventually do that treatment to all of there vehicles.

The Camaro is amazing in that it too is a GM product, I feel the same way sitting in a Camaro as I do sitting in my GTO- A very un-traditional layout and I dont recognize the same switchgear from a malibu or silverado when I want to turn on my headlights or adjust the radio.

Jason, Dodge has sold alot of Rams on the name Hemi, and I'm sure you have encountered that. Instead of people saying or knowing that it is 345HP and 5.7L, they just say "Hemi", I dont believe the engine is as similar enough to the origional Hemi to warrent the name (just like untill lately no charger had 4 doors) but that is something else.

I didnt care for the shift points because I felt as though If I could control it, I would want it in the next higher gear, it was more reved up when driving down a 45mph road then I'd like although I know that assists for power on tap.

Tow Haul,I really will say, the Dodge version feels like simply OD off (yes I know they share the same switch (stupid idea)), the GM system re-adjusts all the shifts and I still have control over all gear choices at the same time in either the 4 speed or the new 6 speed, something that I feel is important.

The 5.3L GM engine is suitible for most situations, but I'd LOVE to test the new 6.2L. GM is fazing out the 6.0L 1/2 ton model so it seems the new 6.2L will become the new MAX and that=

Guion: I give ford credit usually for producing a good solid vehicle, but even up untill lately, they had the spark plugs blowing out of the blocks on the 4.6L and 5.4L's, then add the Diesel isnt as well regarded as the Duramax or Cummins and although appearance, the new F150 is one UGLY truck with the ugliest interior I can imagine!

Jason, I want to see the new Ram succeed, but for me, I'm going to be looking for the details. When I detail an 09 Ram in 3 years, I dont want to see visually rusting hardware, heavy chrome pitting, and other decay on such a young truck. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

With all due respect, Branden, this post proves that you have not been around or driven an '07+ 6.7 CTD Ram. Do it. You will never, ever again think a Duramax is more powerful or quieter. It simply is not.

Pay attention to the diesels you see pulling horse trailers and 5th wheels. Talk to trailer salespeople. The Dodge CTD is pretty much the BEST tow vehicle out there.

As long as you don't need to stroke the dashboard Although, that will change as well with the all new HD Rams for 2010. I know that for some time, the DMax was the quietest diesel out there. No longer the case.

And I have to say, when you're using a diesel for what its meant to be used for, does a little more diesel clatter really MATTER? I guess I need to take this board in its proper context...car guys don't care about the important attributes of diesel trucks

6.5 turbo diesel Silverados were always quieter than their contemporary CTD equivalents...who the hell cared? They still sucked

 

Chris,

1) There is no doubt we have yeehaw/rednecks on occassion that show up, looking like they just fell off the turnip truck (or out of an old Dodge truck commercial!!) wanting a Hemi Ram. But you'd be surprised how much fewer and further between they are now than before. I've had some serious, professional, educated Dodge loyalists show up for this new truck. This is without a doubt a great truck, and IMO it is flat better than the F150 or Silverado in many ways.

2) I agree the Tow/Haul mode keeps revs seemingly un-naturally high...but when you NEED that, its invaluable. Most of the time when towing, I don't even use Tow/Haul, whereas with my best friend's '02 GMC 2500HD 6.0, he uses it often. Dodge does adjust the shift points higher, just as GM's does. The reason I prefer the Dodge Tow/Haul mode is BECAUSE of that un-natural, higher RPM. I've had situations as odd as me towing 2 horses in a trailer (about 6,500 lbs) behind me while having my Fisher 8.5' V blade plow (980 lbs) attached to the front, driving down a snow-covered road in a snowstorm. I had no choice...needed the plow to get to the horses to get them to the vet. And at that point, I had more respect for that truck than ever...I thought for sure I couldn't get there in those conditions. Is that an extreme example of preferring Tow/Haul? You bet!! But its those situations where you NEED that ability that I prefer the Dodge powertrain, and its controls. Tow/Haul for Dodge is more for STOPPING than for power. Any guy that tows a lot will tell you that while getting going is great, engine braking for stopping is even more critical. That's why Dodge rates the older '03-'09 Hemi 2500 Rams like mine with a 3.73 axle at a 9,000 lb tow capacity, versus 11,000 lbs for the 4.10. 2,000 lbs more for that little of a difference!! But it has nothing to do with acceleration...its the engine braking.

3) While the 5.3 is "adequate," as you put it, it isn't stellar. At all. I remain completely un-impressed with it, just as I am with Ford's 4.6 or 5.4. It re-confirms, in my mind, the superiority of that "Hemmay."

4) The Dodge will succeed so long as Chrysler does. We're still selling them, even with bankruptcy now throwing us a curve ball. Unlike my 4 year old truck, that was popular solely because of the powertrain, styling and capabilities, the new truck stands tall on all merits...ride quality, NVH, interior, etc.


guion,
Thanks for saying what you did better than I did You're 100% correct...even on a domestic board, it amazes me the bias against another domestic automaker.

 

One more thing, Chris, with respect to trim quality on the Rams you've seen. I'm a little surprised at your findings, to be honest. My Ram has 4 years and 35k miles on it of New England weather...it wasn't garaged until I bought it last August when the original owner traded it in. It saw a significant amount of plow use in harsh conditions, and even had a sander in the bed.

No lie...all the trim looks like new, and everything seems fine at this time. I DID have a 6/100 outter-body rust through claim put through because the top of the LR fender had a touch of rust...not uncommon for all Big 3 makes. It seems all these trucks have inner fender holes that allow crap to collect.

Why did I not complain much? Chrysler allowed the dealership to do the RIGHT repair, and paid $1,000 to have the entire outter bed side replaced...rather than just patching the existing fender and risk having it return. That's the class act Chrysler can be under warranty, as guion alluded to.

I know rust on a 4 year old truck isn't ideal, but it beats Tacoma Frame Rot And Chrysler stood behind it!!! GM is giving my best friend the run-around right now...his other car is an '05 CTS Lemon Edition (don't get me started on this car...its terrible) that has rust bubbles on the hood, worse than my truck did.

The GM Zone Rep claims its from stone chips, and won't cover it. Meanwhile, you can look at bubbles on the hood that have no chips at all. He's so mad, here he is, the current owner of FIVE GM vehicles...and he will not buy another. A total shame.

 

There is alot of Passion in owning a truck- Like a muscle car Your towing the horses throught the snow example reminded me of driving through blizzard conditions in my dad's Tahoe, In my mind no lesser of a vehicle could have gotten me through the snow then a full size 1500 with shiftable 4x4 and high ground clearance. I doubt an Explorer or Blazer would have made it through what I drove through.

Speaking of bed rot, my S/O owns a body shop and quite often they are repairing pickup beds or cabs and have the bed off the frame. I have seen nearly every make/ model taken apart and I agree with you! They all seem to collect and pocket salt and dirt in them in ways that can not be washed out!

I dont know how much influence you had over your repair since you work for Chrysler, but I am one more who has had awful luck with GM. From Tahoe Brakes- They replaced the ABS sensor but let me leave in a way that I could not brake without the ABS coming on regardless of how gentle I stop... To my GTO's clutch/ shifting when they blew me out the door and I delt with the rudest service guy ever! I wouldnt buy an extended GM warrenty due to then being committed to visiting them after 36K I'm happy that relationship is over!

 

To be honest, the body shop went out of their way to make sure they didn't let the zone rep know that I worked here, so that they wouldn't think I was pushing for preferential treatment. The zone rep treated me like Joe Customer, and I was quite happy.