I'd like to hear what Jason E has to say since he is a GM fan who sells them.

I see alot of cars and detail on the side, I like to take note of how things are holding up over time.

Examples: I did a fairly low mile/ newer Pacifica and was suprised to see the screws securing the rear chrome handle (over the license plate) were all rusted to pieces and streaking down the paint, images of rusted tailgates on fake wood cladded minivans of past come to mind.

Then I did an 04 garage kept Ram with only 40K miles. This one had severely rusted hardware around the gas filler which was streaking down the paint, Also the Chrome front bumper was starting to rust on the edges and the hardware there was equally rusted. I havent seen this on any other brand.

I know the newer Ram has a better interior (although I've yet to see it myself) I cant get over those ugly seat skirts on the Ram that hang down, GM's 800 series trucks interiors have it all over the Ram!

Then I did an 07 Chrysler T&C van, The Stow & Go seats are SO cheap! Not only are they super un-comfortable, I couldnt imagine a more cost cutting feeling seat! The fabric on the others didnt feel any better, the wheels were so pitted up that they barely came clean, it was as thought they didnt have any kind of clear on them.

I dont understand why people are so critical of GM quality when Chrysler gets away with such carnage in fit & finish.

 

If others here are like me, they're critical about GM quality because they think GM has a chance to succeed, and they like GM so they want them to succeed.

If they're like me, they've also given up on Chrysler, who has shown almost no signs of life, and seems to be content going out without a fight.

 

I've never liked Chrysler Corp. interiors.

 

Chrysler and quality are not words I would use in the same sentence. As far back as 96 I had a buddy with a brand new 1500 pickup. Nothing but problems with the transmission and clutch under 12k miles, then the motor developed a knock at about 15k. The dealer tried to get out of warrantying it by telling him that his new full size truck should not be used to haul things in the back, and should only be used for groceries,----true story. The paint had to be reshot several times when he got it due to runs in the factory paint, and it goes on and on.

Next experiance I had was my mother in law. She bought an 03 Chrysler LHS. Within 1500 miles they had to rebuild the tranny. Power window motors replaced 4 times in the first year, yes all 4. Sunroof broke off its track and the list goes on.

Next one was my sister's 04 Chrysler Sebring hardtop. At 13k the water pump went out. You have to remove the timing chain to get to it, and because the dealer claimed it was a wear item, she paid over $1500 to get it fixed,then 6 months later the oil pump took a crap. Then on a trip the t-stat housing cracked. It was 2am and she was by herself on a back road so she drove it to a convenience store so it was way overheated. The dealer made her pay for headgasket replacement cause she drove it hot. Then it broke 4 more times in less than 40k miles, and the water pump went again 3 more times. She traded it for a Toyota Rav 4 and with 115k on that one it has never been in the shop for anything.

Now to present. I have an 07 Dodge Caravan that my company gave me as a company car. In the shop about once a month. Transmission rebuilt twice within 30k, and still doesnt shift correctly. I started smelling burnt wiring one day, and the dash started smoking. a/c shut down, all the lights came on, had to replace the harness and that was at 35k. brakes every 10k, too heavy a vehicle for the lousy brakes they provide. fron hubs replace 3 times in 50k. power steering, a/c, stereo, etc etc etc.

So my impression of Chrysler products is total junk. My wife has a 03 Saab 9-5, never breaks, never in the shop. Had a small coolant leak in the beginning, turned out to be a known issue under the intake, but once fixed, no more problems at 90k. My GMC Yukon has about 140k and we replaced the shocks, heater controller valve, heater hoses and recharged the a/c. My Z has 125k on it and the only stuff I have replaced was due to performance, not because it was broken. Neigbor has a 01 Camry with 256k on it and has never been in the shop. My fathers S10 4x4 with 100k, never in the shop, 99 Acura 3.5RL, over 100k, never in the shop. 03 Mercedes, in the shop just about once a month and the dash and door panels and console paint all peeled off. It has about 40k on it.

 

Ask, and ye shall receive

First off, I'd like to make the statement that EVERY car manufacturer has issues, and I'm completely amazed at the issues I see with even the "better quality" car lines, like Toyota and Honda. As I like to tell my customers, every make has a Service Department for a reason

What is my general impression of Chrysler quality over time? To be honest, over the last couple years when comparing NEW models, I don't see where its substantially worse than any other car line, and IMO its pretty comparable to GM. GMT 800s have issues with intermediate steering shaft clunks...HVAC blower motor resistors...window regulators and motors...rotting out at the cab corners and in front of the rear wheels. '02+ Rams have issues with steering rack leaks...occassional wheel bearings...occassionally eating Sales Managers CDs Otherwise, they're every bit as solid. I have an '05 Ram 2500, and I flat love the truck. I don't stroke my dashboard. I don't care about seat skirts. What I care about is knowing when I have 7,500 lbs of horse trailer behind me, or a 1,000 lb V Plow on the front of it and I'm merging onto a freeway, that Hemi and that 5 speed AT is the best damned gas powertrain for a 2500 out there...period. GMs 6.0 just doesn't have the grunt, and up until this year the 4 speed AT completely sucked...I'm sure the 6 speed has solved some of that.

The main reason Jeep has lagged so far behind in JD Power surveys was due to ONE REASON, and one reason alone...leaky Wrangler hardtops Chrysler replaced them under warranty, and even bought back a few of my customers' cars...in a process far easier than any GM buyback program I'd ever seen. When I sell a customer a Liberty, Compass, Patriot or Grand Cherokee, I don't expect to see them back until an oil change...and I don't. When I buy them 3 years old at the local auction, I don't expect them to need any more than brakes, tires, or the occassional tie rod end...and they don't, 99% of the time. When I sit in a comparably aged Chevy, and see all the radio button faces worn off, or the steering clunking, or a headliner that's come unclipped, I can't believe some people on here act all holier-than-thou about GM's quality. Not to pick on GM...I just took in on trade a 20k mile '07 Altima with a blown window motor!

Threxx's statement about Chrysler giving up is the kind of thing that surprises, and kind of irks me, especially coming from someone who supposedly studies the auto industry so closely. I think the reality couldn't be further from the truth. The problem right now is that the NEW Chrysler, aka the one freed from Daimler in '07, hasn't even had the time to prove its metal yet. Go sit in a new Ram, and tell me where these people gave up...

Daimler completely pillaged Chrysler for cash, and left it with nothing. The products out NOW are the product of Daimler's ownership BEFORE. The "New Chrysler" has done things like the Ram...a complete interior re-do of the Compass and Patriot that's beautiful...improved existing interior quality on volume models like Grand Cherokees. My father in law preferred the Grand Cherokee inside over even a comparably priced Enclave because he felt the Enclave was almost overdone. Did anyone here know that Chrysler reduced their warranty claims from MY 07 to MY 08 by THIRTY SIX PERCENT? In ONE YEAR???? They hired away Nissan's quality head that turned their warranty claims around.

The bottom line here is that Chrysler isn't dead yet...far from it. The quality is improving...the new product coming out is gonna be knockout, aka 300, Charger, Grand Cherokee in the next 12 months.

 

I have a neighbor who swears by them yet I'm shocked he keeps buying them but I think it has to do with they are generally cheeper then the alternative and returning customer deals.... (which dont do it for me)

He had a V8 Dakota which had severe trans problems, brand new. Dealer said the same thing that it is a light duty truck not ment for hauling...

Then he bought an 02 Ram 2500 5.9L and that too was traded in when the trans started to slip.

Had a Caravan, went through a trans and traded in when rust started to expose itself ( under 100K '02)

Has a Ram 1500 Van that needed a new engine under warrenty.

now has another 2500 Ram and another Caravan. (giving them both a 3rd shot since he has had 2x each model before???)

It's not enought for me that a warrenty is in place. I cant look at a modern Sebring, Avenger, Caliber and see anything beyond a junky rental car. For the money any alternative is a much better choice.

Am I the only one who is SO tired of hearing about "Hemi" and all the urban myths that go with it? "Hemi mode" stronger then superman, "it's got a hemi", bla bla bla. If GM had a cool engine name and put it on the fenders (other then Vortec Max) which doesnt have the same ring. I've driven the "Hemi" in a Ram, it had a suprising amount of get up, but I didnt like the shifts, RPM range, and the dodge Tow/haul is a joke.

 

i know that the 2.7L was an awful engine. probably worse than the 2.8L GM v6 they put into the older s10 blazer. the 2.7 is a turd. i hope they dont make it anymore. i read that the oil passages are too small, which is what cause the notorious oil slugging problems with this engine. it was an engine that should have never been put on the market. the older chrysler 3.0 and 3.3 were both solid engines.

 

Well, you wanted my take on this stuff, so let me ask you...

1) The Sebring, Avenger and Caliber are about as exciting as a Cobalt, G5, Focus, or any of the other lame duck cheap cars GM or Ford were making until recently. I can't see a Focus being any better than a Caliber...seriously. Have you looked at a Grand Cherokee? A new Ram? A Charger, Challenger or 300? Chrysler itself admits the 3 you mentioned are pretty lousy in the marketplace, and all are slated to be replaced very soon...like within the next 18 months soon.

2) The Hemi thing isn't a myth. What was so bad about the shifts and RPM range? Ever driven one back-to-back with a 5.3 Silverado? Or a 6.0? Can't see you being dissappointed.

How is the Tow/Haul mode a joke? Were you towing when you used it? Something tells me you weren't Try it towing...I love mine.

3) I have an '02 Grand Prix GT in stock right now with 85k. Outter rocker panels are GONE, much to my anger because I gave them ok money for it. All the rot is hidden by the gfx. Now I have to wholesale it. Don't act like Chryslers are the only ones that rust!!!

 

Move south. Rust problem solved

 

My expericance with Dodge gas been an 08 Charger SRT8. While the interior was pretty ugly, it was solidly built...and the materials are decent. Chrysler has a way of making things so ugly they look low quality. Like the Charger's steering wheel that looks like it was pillaged from a dump truck. That being said, it has things like lighted cupholders I have not seen on any of my GM vehicles. Also, the myGig is better than anything I have seen from GM.

As for the best engine in a 2500 pickup..that would be a Duramax with a 6 speed allison.

 

Note that I said gas engine However, IMO you're still incorrect, good sir, because the Cummins completely wipes the floor with the Duramax...and the Aisin tranny paired with the Cummins is pretty damn good, too.

Not to mention, with Dodge you can still get a manual with the diesel...even in the re-design coming out this Summer

 

I've had three Dodges, all bought new,

1) 1984 Omni GLH. Incredibly fun car for very cheap. But after about 40-50,000 miles, started becoming a money pit.

2) 1998 Dodge Caravan. Best vehicle I've ever owned. Never took it to the dealer once. Only needed to replace wear items, (tires, brakes, wipers, battery), in over 110,000 miles. And this vehicle suffered the abuse and neglect that only my wife and kids can dish out.

3) 2004 Hemi Durango. Not as carefree of an ownership experience as out Caravan, but I think that I can vouch that all that Hemi hoopla is well deserved. Sweet motor.

 

Jason,

I think the GM 6.0L works just fine. I haven't driven it in an HD, I guess, but I've driven it in a 1500 Crew Cab short box 4wd, and it was pretty damn strong. This is before the six speed auto, which I've not tried yet with that engine.

As for the Cummins vs. the Duramax, I'm sure the Cummins has a leg up in terms of overall beefyness / durability (I have no data on that), but in terms of performance, the Duramax Allison seems to wipe the floor with the Cummins / Aisin and the Powerstroke trucks, based on tests I've seen. And Allison > Aisin (not that I'm biased or anything...)

 

Indeed!

 

^ you are inviting more snow birds to move to the south?


you both should be banished!